OD - Quoting

[GRL]

Rosie's VBH (very better half) here.

Rosie and I did a trial booking on OD and were quoted £100 for 2 nights - when in fact it is £160 (low season). So if we were a potential client we would then be told the price is in fact £160 and not £100 - a difference of 60%. If a supermarket shelf edge label was marked as £1 and we were charged £1.60 at the checkout we would be complaining and why should our future clients be any different. The client clicks the book down button there is NO explanation that the price is only an estimate and could vary.

We highlighted this highly likely problem to OD before they launched their new site and the customer service operator said he would bring it to management’s attention. Once again the customer is proved right and OD proved wrong.

So I spoke to OD, today, with my concerns regarding the quotes on nightly rates they give to what we actually charge plus how we stand legally and also how to deal with a potential client who is none too pleased with a huge price difference. We also want to know how we can advertise the rates that we actually charge. The OD customer service lady was very helpful (for a change) and tried various ways to help. She agreed that it was a problem and handed it over to management - and guess what? NO response from them! Apparently the reason for this new form of pricing is that under EU law there must be no hidden charges – taxes, fees, pets etc. on the prices we charge. This is correct. When I said to OD that surely a hidden charge is the fact that you quote £100 and we say it is £160.00 then there is a £60 hidden charge. First silence then, in not so many words, “you have a good point, sir.”


So I rang the European Consumer Centre UK/ECC (trading standards) for some advice. Having explained the situation to them I found out that apparently OD quoting one price and us another is not illegal (much to my surprise) but is not good practice – as we all know (accept OD management). BUT OD is only an advertising medium therefore they SHOULD NOT BE INVOLVED in the pricing at all and this should be between us the owners and our potential client. OD should therefore not be quoting prices for us – especially incorrect ones. This is what I was told and funnily enough I take trading standards word over OD’s any time.

Any contract is legally between us, the owner, and the client and NOT OD. So when the client is suing us will OD be backing us – I doubt it.

[tavi]

Very interesting rosie's vmbh.

OD should therefore not be quoting prices for us – especially incorrect ones.

So the question is: how can OD be stopped from doing the above? Should they be reported to ECC/Trading standards?

[GRL]

Very interesting rosie's vmbh.

OD should therefore not be quoting prices for us – especially incorrect ones.

So the question is: how can OD be stopped from doing the above? Should they be reported to ECC/Trading standards?

YES in a word

[Essar]

The OD upgrade has brought OD's prices into line with just about every other listing site - HL, HA, FK, AB, BC, etc.

HA/OD:
Owners can establish a price card for a set number of guests; this can contain a "standard" pricing plus multiple date range pricings.
The ranges will include a nightly, weekly and monthly rate; owners can also have a different nightly rate for weekend nights (and specify which nights are weekend nights). The "standard" pricing will be used for the search results displays; if no dates are selected in the search, the results will also show the highest weekend night rate is the price card - ala £120 - £210.
When calculations are done; if the dates selected do not fall into a date range pricing the "standard" rate will be used. If the number of nights is less than a week and you allow short breaks then the week day and weekend nightly rates will be used for the calculation. If the stay is longer that 7 nights the nightly rate will always be the weekly prorata rate for that date range price (or the "standard" if no matching dates exist in the price card).
If you allow for extra guest you will have to include a complete duplicate price card set of date ranges for that number of guests but with different rates obviously. You could potentially, have serveral price cards. e.g. Up to 4 guests, up to 6 guests and up to 8 guests. - Each must be identical in date ranges to ensure they work correctly, each can have a different "standard" rate range.
To ensure that the "standard" range is never used, except on dates after your last entered date range (e.g. next year), always make sure that every date in the year is covered. If you do this and a enquirer enters proper dates in their search your nightly and weekly rates used will be those for the date range in the price card for the number guests selected.

I used to have my short breaks calculated on a percentage of the weekly rate; this is impossible with the way that the listing sites have established their price cards. I therefore, adapted my calculations to match those as described previously. I now have a single price card for the property covering the maximum number of guests it can accommodate. Each date range has a minimum stay period, flexible or fixed arrival day, nightly rates (weekday/weekend) and a weekly rate, I don't bother with a monthly rate as my maximum stay is 28-nights. The sums done by the site then matches my own method.

It can be very traumatic having to re-think your pricing strategy, particlularly, when it was working well anyway; just because a listing site you subscribe to changes its calculation method. Unfortunately, they are never going to adapt to our ways of working, so if we want them to get us bookings then we have to adapt to theirs.

There is actually nothing stopping an owner haveing different price cards on different listing sites - it's not illegal - it is confusing for enquirers though. Some owners do this to compensate for their commission payment that the listing site charges them.

Having a "from" nightly price is extremely confusing for enquirers; I have a page on my website that I point enquirers to if they complain about my price not matching the "from" price quoted on the listing site.

[GRL]

Are you saying we should bow down to these people and be 'accessories to the facts' whilst they break the law? RVBH

[Essar]

Are you saying we should bow down to these people and be 'accessories to the facts' whilst they break the law? RVBH

You will probably find that the reasons for the price differential is entirely down to the upgrade of the OD site and the cock-ups associated with that.

I was also trying to help you understand how the pricing calculations on this site will work (when it settles down).

They are not breaking the law - it is not illegal to have a different way of calculating the rental prices to your own. If you can't get their calculation methodology to work for you then don't use them.

My giveashitometer on what you think I think is zero. Don't take you anger out on me for trying to help.

[Gettingthere]

I also like to charge a %age of the weekly rate for a short break and it is possible to manipulate the HA & OD rate card to fit with it and quote the correct price.

For example, if my weekly rate is £1000 and i charge 70% for short breaks of up to 3 days, I do the following on the rate card:

-Set the weekly rate to £1000
-Set the minimum number of days to 3
-Set the daily rate to £233.33 (which is 70% of 1000 divided by 3)

[GRL]

They are not breaking the law - it is not illegal to have a different way of calculating the rental prices to your own. If you can't get their calculation methodology to work for you then don't use them.

My giveashitometer on what you think I think is zero. Don't take you anger out on me for trying to help.

Rosie here - I don't like their method of calculating rates because it does not give inaccurate "quotes" based on our pricing structure - nor do I like the way for example Airbnb set theirs. However I knew the Airbnb method when I signed up for it and only expect minimal bookings from that as I have had to set our nightly rate high. OD used to be our main source of bookings and 2 days ago OD we had a system that worked for us and that was what we signed up for and paid for. Now they have moved the goal posts and we are left taking the flack from customers who find out the price OD quote is well below the actual price. We are not getting at you Essar - we are trying to make something work that wasn't a problem until these changes were foisted upon us.

[French Cricket]

Rosie and RVBH - I'm with you on this, and I've added a stern (!) comment to your post on OD's FB page.

It is not for OD/HA or any other listing site to determine how we set our prices - that's a business decision to be taken by us and only by us. I don't mind them quoting (though I don't really think it's their business to do so) but if they're going to quote then they need to find a way to do it accurately and to respect that WE are the professionals here.

[GRL]

Thank you FC I sometimes feel we are banging our heads against a brick wall but at least we are trying to make our voices heard. This new system is not what we paid up for and it is so misleading for potential customers who are thin on the ground at the best of times.

[Bunny]

Rosie and RVBH, I'm totally with you on this. I can't tell you how angry I am. I've spent hours trying to get around their new system to try and make it work for me but to no avail. I just know I'm not going to sleep tonight. My head is spinning. Every way I turn I'm foiled by their stupid software. It's not what I paid and signed up for either. Whichever way I turn, I'm either not going to get the enquiries or I am going to have angry ones. It may not be illegal to have different prices on different sites but deliberately and knowingly misleading quoting is outrageous and totally unprofessional in my book. I fear another wasted day tomorrow trying to sort it all out.

This has to be the monumental cock up of the century OD!

[Bunny]

I also like to charge a %age of the weekly rate for a short break and it is possible to manipulate the HA & OD rate card to fit with it and quote the correct price.

For example, if my weekly rate is £1000 and i charge 70% for short breaks of up to 3 days, I do the following on the rate card:

-Set the weekly rate to £1000
-Set the minimum number of days to 3
-Set the daily rate to £233.33 (which is 70% of 1000 divided by 3)

Newtoit, as far as I can tell so far, this will only work if you only use one percentage rate for short breaks. Many of us use a different percentage for differing number of nights. With short breaks I am totally flexible with duration and start day.

[Bunny]

If you allow for extra guest you will have to include a complete duplicate price card set of date ranges for that number of guests but with different rates obviously. You could potentially, have serveral price cards. e.g. Up to 4 guests, up to 6 guests and up to 8 guests. - Each must be identical in date ranges to ensure they work correctly, each can have a different "standard" rate range.

Essar, I've tried to do this but it will not allow duplicate date ranges so you can only enter one pricing structure for any given dates. I'm so tired and almost brain dead I don't know if I'm missing/not understanding something here?

[GRL]

If you allow for extra guest you will have to include a complete duplicate price card set of date ranges for that number of guests but with different rates obviously. You could potentially, have serveral price cards. e.g. Up to 4 guests, up to 6 guests and up to 8 guests. - Each must be identical in date ranges to ensure they work correctly, each can have a different "standard" rate range.

Essar, I've tried to do this but it will not allow duplicate date ranges so you can only enter one pricing structure for any given dates. I'm so tired and almost brain dead I don't know if I'm missing/not understanding something here?

Wasn't it all so much simpler when we simply set a weekly rate for any given date and potential guests emailed us to ask if we did short breaks and if so how much would we charge and were there any extra payments to add onto our set rate?

[tavi]

OD can of course upgrade their website as much as they like, charge us what they like, but quoting prices for specific guests on our behalf is the problem.

Either it's illegal or it isn't. If it's illegal they shouldn't be doing it regardless of whether the quote is accurate or not.