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What type of heating and cover(saltwater chlorination pool)?
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Entirelyidentifiable



Joined: 29 Mar 2015
Posts: 75

PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2015 4:16 pm    Post subject: What type of heating and cover(saltwater chlorination pool)? Reply with quote

I'm sure this has been done lots of times but I would like up-to-date info as I guess technology etc. changes things after a few years.

My pool in the Algarve has a saltwater chlorination system, it's kidney-shaped and 8x4m. Pools out there are pretty chilly other than in July and August, plus a couple of weeks either side depending on the weather, I find. Our agency really think we will get more shoulder season bookings with pool heating, plus WE want it for our use anyway.

But what type? The guy we had to do a quote suggested a normal cover plus an electric pump. Then solar panels as an option to cut bills. We will do as most owners do in the area and pass the cost of heating to guests with a weekly supplement for those who choose to have the pool heated.

I am concerned about the cover roller as I think they look ugly and my pool area is lovely! Any ideas on that? Also don't the covers just get dirty and then make the pool dirty?
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tavi



Joined: 14 Sep 2011
Posts: 2578
Location: Algarve

PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2015 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The cover and roller (with a bubble cover) are not particularly pretty but they make one heck of a difference in retaining the heat - especially in the shoulder season when the sun can be quite hot daytime but night temperatures drop a lot.

Really no point in heating the water (especially using electric - v expensive here and 23% vat) without a way to retain the heat at night!

Solar panels are another effective way to heat the water.

No, the cover doesn't make the water dirty unless it's covered in leaves - but then without it - the water would be full of leaves!

Turning the pool heating on and off for different guests can be a pain and of course it will take two to 3 days to heat up from stone cold.
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teapot



Joined: 23 Oct 2013
Posts: 762
Location: Loire valley

PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2015 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As Tavi has said, trying to keep a pool warm without a cover is near on impossible as any heat will pretty much leave over night and any breeze over the pool will exasperate the problem.
For others reading this and considering a pool go for an insulated design for walls and floor, much easier to heat and keep warm but a cover is needed still.

The next issue is the kidney shaped pool doesn't make it that easy either. You may need the cover cut in two at the narrowest point of the shape and then close each part separately if you follow me.

By electric pump , I assume you mean air to water heat pump?
These are the most efficient form of pool heating for a turn key operation as even solar which is free energy wise doesn't work all that well when there isn't much sun/heat. Heat pumps vary considerably in performance and are often quoted at the higher temperature ambient air (the point at which you are not likely to be heating!) check the performance at the lower air temperature similar to that which you actually get at the shoulder season. For example a 12kw air source to water heat pump requires about 2.5kw of electricity per hour the rest of the heat is drawn from the air around it. When it's really cool the 2.5kw of electricity to run the unit may only produce around 7kw of heat, compared to 12kw in ideal conditions.

Solar takes many forms from evacuated tube solar to plastic or rubber mats. Evacuated tube solar can function in Antarctica other types can't https://www.bas.ac.uk/about/antarctica/environmental-protection/energy-use-and-carbon-management/energy-and-technology-at-bas/renewable-and-alternative-energy-in-the-antarctic/bas-goes-solar/

With other types of solar panels the water from the pool is pumped around mats or panels but the water requires a pump that can handle the extra load so this extra electrical energy can cost more to operate compared to just filtering.
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bornintheuk



Joined: 12 Jun 2011
Posts: 423
Location: Southern Charente

PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2015 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As teapot says the evacuated tube system will work in low sunlight conditions but will need a heat exchanger to transfer the heat from the separate solar system to the pool water. This will give losses due to less than 100% efficiency.
The circulation pump is normally sufficient to circulate the water through the polypropylene panels but will depend on pipe runs etc. Do not consider rubber matting, you will throw it away after just a few years of use.
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teapot



Joined: 23 Oct 2013
Posts: 762
Location: Loire valley

PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2015 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bornintheuk wrote:
Do not consider rubber matting, you will throw it away after just a few years of use.

It's true but I just didn't want to be the one to say it! Laughing

Because most pools (99.9%) have pumps far too powerful for the filtering requirements as bornintheuk says it shouldn't be an issue using the standard one

Why aren't heat exchangers sold with insulation around them like a hot tank would be?
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Entirelyidentifiable



Joined: 29 Mar 2015
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2015 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fantastic info. Thank you. Does anyone know if the saltwater chlorination system i.e. saltier water has any impact on the cover's life or that of the other equipment?
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teapot



Joined: 23 Oct 2013
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Location: Loire valley

PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2015 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the case of a cover no, The sun's UV is the overriding factor leading to failure.

Pumps should be stated for salt water use, although when the seals are good it's normally ok not all are as they use the wrong grade of stainless steel etc for pump shafts. Stainless steel ladders, screws etc can also suffer. It is as rare as Hens teeth that a sacrificial anode has been fitted but they should be and can reduce the corrosion significantly.
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Entirelyidentifiable



Joined: 29 Mar 2015
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We have what I believe are called Roman Steps so no pool ladder.

Ok, so just give it to me straight, if this was your pool, in the Algarve, what would you get to heat it?

By the way, we will definitely get a cover but want to know if there is some sort of more attractive solution than the usual huge ugly roller thing.
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teapot



Joined: 23 Oct 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How much space do you have for solar collectors vs the very small amount required for a heat pump?
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bornintheuk



Joined: 12 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Entirelyidentifiable wrote:

Ok, so just give it to me straight, if this was your pool, in the Algarve, what would you get to heat it?



Investigate whether you could get a grant or help with solar in comparison to heat pump.
Also remember heat pumps can be noisy so siting is important.
Personally I would use solar as I previously sold/installed them (retired now) and have 2 systems installed on our pools in France, one for over 15yrs with no running costs or problems.
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Bassman



Joined: 05 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bornintheuk wrote:


Investigate whether you could get a grant or help with solar in comparison to heat pump.
Also remember heat pumps can be noisy so siting is important.
Personally I would use solar as I previously sold/installed them (retired now) and have 2 systems installed on our pools in France, one for over 15yrs with no running costs or problems.

How is you pool heating standing up at the moment? the thing that worried me about solar heating was how to keep the pool warm in conditions like we are having at the moment. We have 3 lots guest coming in a couple of days and they want to use the pool weather permitting.
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bornintheuk



Joined: 12 Jun 2011
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Location: Southern Charente

PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bassman wrote:
bornintheuk wrote:


Investigate whether you could get a grant or help with solar in comparison to heat pump.
Also remember heat pumps can be noisy so siting is important.
Personally I would use solar as I previously sold/installed them (retired now) and have 2 systems installed on our pools in France, one for over 15yrs with no running costs or problems.

How is you pool heating standing up at the moment? the thing that worried me about solar heating was how to keep the pool warm in conditions like we are having at the moment. We have 3 lots guest coming in a couple of days and they want to use the pool weather permitting.

Current temp 24 deg C, bubble cover on and covered with leaves ! (high winds)
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teapot



Joined: 23 Oct 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's not bad 24 deg but what can you do to get it to 28? Maybe a small additional heater, baby air source?

The noise issues are obviously still there but less these days now the modern fans are used on some models.
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Bassman



Joined: 05 Oct 2010
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Location: Charente Maritime

PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

teapot wrote:
That's not bad 24 deg but what can you do to get it to 28? Maybe a small additional heater, baby air source?

The noise issues are obviously still there but less these days now the modern fans are used on some models.


Mine is at 28C at the moment though its costing me 4-5euros a day to keep it that way. I dont find them that noisy especially the new one
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bornintheuk



Joined: 12 Jun 2011
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Location: Southern Charente

PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

teapot wrote:
That's not bad 24 deg but what can you do to get it to 28? Maybe a small additional heater, baby air source?

The noise issues are obviously still there but less these days now the modern fans are used on some models.


To be quite frank, I wouldn't want to swim in the recent weather we've had here and once we get some sun it will come back again to 26/28.
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