'Social Security' (NI) exemption query

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teba18
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'Social Security' (NI) exemption query

Post by teba18 »

We are both self-employed in husband's business in UK and both pay NI in UK. To avoid paying 'Social Secuirty' (ie NI) in Portugal as well, we've been asked to complete an online form to get exemption - something called A1 (http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/forms/ca8421.pdf) I've looked through it and it seems to be for people who are working in 2 or more European countries - it actually asks when we're moving abroad! Although I think we can register as 'self-employed'.
Does anyone know anything about this or been asked to do it?
Yes, we make a bit of money to help with the upkeep of our apartment but I really don't feel comfortable officially saying we're running a business!
PortugalGuy
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Post by PortugalGuy »

but for them its a business...even if get 100€ a month isnt a business?
for us... it isnt...
for the laws it is

:shock: :shock: :shock:
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kevsboredagain
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Post by kevsboredagain »

Where are you resident? That's where you pay taxes and NI.
teba18
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Post by teba18 »

Yes we're resident in UK and that's where we pay but because we're now classed as running a business in Portugal, to avoid having to pay there too we apparently have to fill in this form. I'm just curious about whether anyone else has done it and any implications there might be..
Hells Bells
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Post by Hells Bells »

You should only be paying NI in your country of residence, there should be no need to fill in a form.
teba18
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Post by teba18 »

Yes - as I understand it, we need to fill in the form to prove to the authorities in Portugal that we already pay in the UK. I don't think anyone is expecting us to pay in both countries.
The form is an online thing - fill it in online, print it, send it to HMRC and they send whatever it is to whoever needs whatever it is. And they're asking for it asap - im not sure HMRC understand the meaning of that! I imagine it could take a loong time!!!
Hells Bells
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Post by Hells Bells »

I have never been asked for this from French authorities. I just complete the relevant tax returns.
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Post by Hells Bells »

You need a certificate of residence. https://online.hmrc.gov.uk/shortforms/form/PT_CertOfRes
teba18
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Post by teba18 »

Sorry Helen but I've no idea why we need a residence certificate and I imagine laws & tax regulations and requirements could well be different in France. Whether we like it or not, I think we'll have to comply with what the Portuguese authorities are asking for, which is this particular form. I just wondered if any others with a property in Portugal had already done it and what their experience was.
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Post by Hells Bells »

I actually asked a person who was resident in the UK and had a property in Portugal until very recently. The residence certificate proves to the Portugese authorities that you live in the UK and is what they were told to obtain by their Portugese accountant.
RichardHenshall
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Post by RichardHenshall »

I completed an online email/enquiry form on the HMRC website in March of this year asking the following:
I have a holiday property in Portugal that is let out to holidaymakers during the summer. To comply with Portuguese rules I have had to register a 'business activity' with them for the provision of holiday rental/tourism services. This is a form of self-employment but with simplified taxation based on a fixed percentage of turnover/income. However they also want me to pay the Portuguese equivalent of NICs unless I can prove exemption through already paying in the UK (using a form A1, perhaps?). Is this evidence of exemption something you can provide?
The reply I received earlier in September this year stated:
Thank you for contacting HMRC International Caseworker.

In order to obtain a portable document A1 you will need to complete and return the application form CA8421 which can be downloaded from the website gov.uk
Purely coincidentally (honest!), I completed and printed CA8421 and posted it (errr, earlier today).
teba18
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Post by teba18 »

Very interesting - thanks Helen. We'll ask our accountant about it ...... although I'm not sure proof of residence proves you necessarily pay NI, which seems to be what they want. We'll definitely check it out though.

What a coincidence Richard! Good to know it isn't just us - but did it actually take HMRC 6 months to reply to your query??
RichardHenshall
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Post by RichardHenshall »

teba18 wrote:... did it actually take HMRC 6 months to reply to your query??
Yes! And that was just to ask how to request evidence. No idea how long the next bit will take.
RichardHenshall
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Post by RichardHenshall »

On chasing my application with HMRC today I was told that they have my form but that it will take "6 weeks .. no, sorry 8 weeks, maybe 10 weeks" to be processed. :roll:
aasta
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Post by aasta »

:roll:
took ours almost a year!!!!
aasta
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