Has this happened to anyone else?
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Hells Bells
- Posts: 13173
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- Location: French Alps
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I know in April when I got back from holiday and checked my web stats there was a click through to my site from a site I didn't recognise. I checked it out, and my property was listed there, but as I was unable to access the control panel, I emaile dfor a password. They had copied my info from another website or even my own site, I'm not sure, and were wanting to charge me 4% commission for the privilege. Now, I actually like the look of the site, and my listing is currently active,and I am a featured property, but I have had no enquiries at all. In fact I enquired about another property on there in my village, as we want some friends to come with us next winter. I got an email back to say that the owners had not yet accepted the listing. What is going on? It's villaway.com
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CostaBlanca
- Posts: 253
- Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2006 2:58 pm
- Location: Costa Blanca
Re: Has this happened to anyone else?
Hi,
Does the listing site request the address when registering (even if not displayed)? If so, the listing site can surely tell you if someone is trying to rent a property fraudalently. I am also surprised at the number of listing sites that show the address of the properties.
Un saludo,
Maria
Just a remote possibility: Maybe this person has her/his own villa to rent but cheated by using someone else´s information and spectacular photos for the listing site. When the enquiry comes in, they advise that this particular villa is not available but that they have another villa which happens to be free.Mouse wrote:We both looked at the information displayed closely and although all the photos were of the villa, the no. of bedrooms and bathrooms had been increased by 1 and the price was quite a lot lower than the owner would normally charge. This made her very suspicious.
All the text describing the villa had also been copied. x
Does the listing site request the address when registering (even if not displayed)? If so, the listing site can surely tell you if someone is trying to rent a property fraudalently. I am also surprised at the number of listing sites that show the address of the properties.
Un saludo,
Maria
no Maria it doesn't request the address details. Just the name/description.
Actually my friends husband suggested just what you are - that this would entice people to enquire about this villa and then he would try and sell them a booking in another, possibly less glamerous, villa.
he didn't activate the booking calendar nor did he put his telephone number - only contact could be made via email.
hasta
Mouse
x
Actually my friends husband suggested just what you are - that this would entice people to enquire about this villa and then he would try and sell them a booking in another, possibly less glamerous, villa.
he didn't activate the booking calendar nor did he put his telephone number - only contact could be made via email.
hasta
Mouse
x
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Hells Bells
- Posts: 13173
- Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2005 8:42 am
- Location: French Alps
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It was a bit tricky as my friends name is on the site against the details of the house that was copied - so I did it but my email address links to our personal website which mentions we live in Ibiza so that wasn't ideal!
.....anyhow I didn't get an immediate response. But my friend was so concerned she didn't want to wait any longer and so contacted the website company who then tried to get intouch with the advertised contact....leading them to take the page offline
Mouse
x
.....anyhow I didn't get an immediate response. But my friend was so concerned she didn't want to wait any longer and so contacted the website company who then tried to get intouch with the advertised contact....leading them to take the page offline
Mouse
x
One martini, two martini, three martini floor!
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Hells Bells
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Hi Helen
Yes I did get a response..
"Hi Crystal
I understand your concern and agree that one cannot be too careful. I
always approve listings even if they just put the name of the city or
location under which they are listed in the address field and I have
brought the matter to the attention of the ******* team for
review.
Kind Regards,
Bronwyn Caddick"
I have deliberately not given the site name, it definitely leaves other rental owners wide open to fraudulent scams as it displays the full property address!
I have since gone into my owner log-in and deleted the full address of the villa...with just the location of the villa i.e. Torreblanca. It has been approved, so I guess they are taking this seriously!
Yes I did get a response..
"Hi Crystal
I understand your concern and agree that one cannot be too careful. I
always approve listings even if they just put the name of the city or
location under which they are listed in the address field and I have
brought the matter to the attention of the ******* team for
review.
Kind Regards,
Bronwyn Caddick"
I have deliberately not given the site name, it definitely leaves other rental owners wide open to fraudulent scams as it displays the full property address!
I have since gone into my owner log-in and deleted the full address of the villa...with just the location of the villa i.e. Torreblanca. It has been approved, so I guess they are taking this seriously!
I don't understand this, maybe I'm being dense. Why does giving out the address of the property lead to fraudulent scams? Personally I would find it very offputting not to know exactly where a property is located before booking it, and about 40% of the people who currently book ours would have a problem with it also, as they are familiar with the area and want to know exactly where it is located before they make a decision. So we do give out our address on our website and this is linked from several listing sites also.
While I can understand that might be a cause of concern in a big city area where household breakins are a big problem, even so, a good security system ought to take care of that. So what other reasons are there for not giving out the address? What fraudulent scams are you talking about exactly?
While I can understand that might be a cause of concern in a big city area where household breakins are a big problem, even so, a good security system ought to take care of that. So what other reasons are there for not giving out the address? What fraudulent scams are you talking about exactly?
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Gloria - Casina di Rosa
- Posts: 46
- Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2006 5:33 pm
- Location: Tuscany, South of Siena
- Contact:
Gloria,Gloria - Casina di Rosa wrote:Isn't this site exactly meant to protect us from these things?
No, sorry to disappoint you. This site exists to facilitate the sharing of information, so that we are better prepared to protect ourselves. There's no requiremet here to disclose mistakes, or any other aspect. It is entirely voluntary.
Hope you stay around!
There seem to me to be two possibilities when you see your house or an approximation of it advertised without your knowledge, one bad, the other worse:
1. A listing site is scraping ads from other listing sites to look like they are popular and established. When they get an enquiry they contact you so you are grateful to them, or even invite you to subscribe in order to see the enquiry.
2. A fraud which I fear will become commonplace: a scammer is advertising a home which is not his, and going through the booking process up to taking the payments. How do renters know they are really dealing with an owner, or a property that exists? Without agencies or regulatory bodies between renter and owner, everything can be faked.
1. A listing site is scraping ads from other listing sites to look like they are popular and established. When they get an enquiry they contact you so you are grateful to them, or even invite you to subscribe in order to see the enquiry.
2. A fraud which I fear will become commonplace: a scammer is advertising a home which is not his, and going through the booking process up to taking the payments. How do renters know they are really dealing with an owner, or a property that exists? Without agencies or regulatory bodies between renter and owner, everything can be faked.
Paolo
Lay My Hat
Lay My Hat
To add to Bad Scenario #1, let's assume the listing site isn't run by the best of business people... so they get inquiries that they do NOT pass on to you (too busy, whatever). When that potential renter sees your home on another site, they don't bother requesting again, since they know you don't answer your inquiries. Bad for the home owner, bad for the whole VRBO business.
But, yes, #2 is much worse.
debk
But, yes, #2 is much worse.
debk
Joanna, good question. Here is why I would never put our addresses online... and why I would be very upset with any site that did so.
Although we live just a few blocks from our properties, we do not live on site. All the properties are on very quiet, semi-private lanes and:
1. I get a surprising number of requests for the address from people who want to "take a look"... but when I email back telling them, sure, I'd be happy to meet them there, when? About half I never hear from again, for whatever reason. (And how many more lookers might there be if they didn't have to ask me for the address?) Strangers wandering around "looking" would be a nuisance to the neighbors and our guests. Think medieval streets, everyone knows who everyone else is, and then clueless people trying to drive in with cars on tiny, curving lanes not meant for cars; curving lanes they'll then need to BACK out of... Lordy. Gives me a headache just thinking about it. Ack. It's a delicate balance as it is with the (wonderful) neighbors. This would be over the top.
(I will, however, mail a map with a big X showing the general location, as we feel our location is the magic of our offerings... if you are looking for neighborhood immersion, that is.
The generalized map illustrates this well.)
2. Given the private location and the fact that we have calendars online showing clearly when the places are empty/ full, along with photos of the amenities (fancy a laptop, visit when empty; prefer lots of cash/passports, visit when full), I won't risk the one person who would try a planned break-in.
A few years back, there was an international magazine spread about some gorgeous Alentejo/mid-Portugal villas. The article used the actual names of the villas (though now companies are inventing names to protect the home owners; FineLiving did this when they put one of our houses on their TV program -- the name change still causes some confusion but I appreciate their caution). During the following year, each villa was robbed, with the robbers carefully choosing the true antiques versus the cleverly matching pieces as pointed out in the article. A friend of mine owns a neighboring villa and it was a scary time for a region still living in the past century.
So, although Portugal is one of the safest countries in the world, I'm going to be a bit cautious. And protective of our address.
Obviously, other owners will prefer to post their addresses... but I do not think a listing site should do so without express owner approval.
debk
ps-A security system is just one part of an overall security plan. And, besides, if the owner gives you a floorplan, you can probably get in/out before anyone arrives.
Although we live just a few blocks from our properties, we do not live on site. All the properties are on very quiet, semi-private lanes and:
1. I get a surprising number of requests for the address from people who want to "take a look"... but when I email back telling them, sure, I'd be happy to meet them there, when? About half I never hear from again, for whatever reason. (And how many more lookers might there be if they didn't have to ask me for the address?) Strangers wandering around "looking" would be a nuisance to the neighbors and our guests. Think medieval streets, everyone knows who everyone else is, and then clueless people trying to drive in with cars on tiny, curving lanes not meant for cars; curving lanes they'll then need to BACK out of... Lordy. Gives me a headache just thinking about it. Ack. It's a delicate balance as it is with the (wonderful) neighbors. This would be over the top.
(I will, however, mail a map with a big X showing the general location, as we feel our location is the magic of our offerings... if you are looking for neighborhood immersion, that is.
The generalized map illustrates this well.)2. Given the private location and the fact that we have calendars online showing clearly when the places are empty/ full, along with photos of the amenities (fancy a laptop, visit when empty; prefer lots of cash/passports, visit when full), I won't risk the one person who would try a planned break-in.
A few years back, there was an international magazine spread about some gorgeous Alentejo/mid-Portugal villas. The article used the actual names of the villas (though now companies are inventing names to protect the home owners; FineLiving did this when they put one of our houses on their TV program -- the name change still causes some confusion but I appreciate their caution). During the following year, each villa was robbed, with the robbers carefully choosing the true antiques versus the cleverly matching pieces as pointed out in the article. A friend of mine owns a neighboring villa and it was a scary time for a region still living in the past century.
So, although Portugal is one of the safest countries in the world, I'm going to be a bit cautious. And protective of our address.
Obviously, other owners will prefer to post their addresses... but I do not think a listing site should do so without express owner approval.
debk
ps-A security system is just one part of an overall security plan. And, besides, if the owner gives you a floorplan, you can probably get in/out before anyone arrives.
Last edited by debk on Sun Aug 27, 2006 8:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
Yes and scenario #2 is relatively easy when you think about it. You can request 'potential' guests to send money anywhere (UK or abroad).
Had this scenario rolled through - this house could have had weeks sold and paid for, completely without the owners knowledge.
Had one of these 'guests' turned up on the doorstep demanding his holiday one wonders would he be held liable? He certainly would have to prove he wasn't connected with the 'scam' but that would be difficult as these sites don't take any signatures/copies of utility bills etc.
And it would have been an explosive situation to boot!
Mouse
x
Had this scenario rolled through - this house could have had weeks sold and paid for, completely without the owners knowledge.
Had one of these 'guests' turned up on the doorstep demanding his holiday one wonders would he be held liable? He certainly would have to prove he wasn't connected with the 'scam' but that would be difficult as these sites don't take any signatures/copies of utility bills etc.
And it would have been an explosive situation to boot!
Mouse
x
One martini, two martini, three martini floor!