Lay My Hat

I've scrolled up and down the topic list two or three times and there isn't really a correct place for this post. Buying/selling is the nearest I got.
It is becoming increasingly possible that there will be a referendum in the UK with the increasingly possible "outcome" of "come out"!
That could leave both resident expats and non-resident owners in a bit of a pickle. At present all EU citizens enjoy special consideration as property owners in other EU countries. That would change if the UK came out of the EEC.
There's a whole range of status; many owners of properties in Spain, France, Portugal, Italy, Greece and several other countries have bought as a second residence or investment but still live full time in the UK; some have chosen to sell up entirely in the UK and reside abroad; some have pensions paid in their host country; some are married to a native of the host country; many have kids born outside the UK; some have registered businesses. Everybody will be affected differently but EVERYBODY will be affected in some way. Those of us who are resident abroad won't even have a vote. I have been resident in Spain since 1987 but I don't really want to become Spanish. (And in this little corner it could become even more complex if Catalunya moves towards independence.)
So, I'm very interested in everybody's views. We won't find a definitive answer but at least thinking about it can help us be prepared.

This is all true, but consider for a moment the status of the EU without the UK, the Anglo-Saxon mercantile centre is based in London and that won't change because the UK leaves. The EU will be diminshed in the eyes of the World.

The EU exports £11Bn worth of goods to the UK every year and they certainly won't want that to change.

There are as many French people living in London as Britains in the whole of France.

If the UK leaves there will be treaties put in place to keep the status quo for just about everything including housing, property ownership, taxation and residency. Why change the things that work, it's not logical, but then the EU is an unelected, undemocratic federal state run by bureaucrats.

I firmly believe that the UK will be better off without the burden of the EU. I see nothing that I wouldn't have anyway.

Yes, its nice to drive from Dover all the way down to Southern Spain unhindered by border controls, but it's not a big deal not to have free movement of people as a right.

And as for Bosnia and Turkey joining the EU - give me strength - total folly!

Agree with all that ESSAR and I think, unlike lots of fellow Scots, that the UK could be better off coming out.
But there are lots of us who will suffer "collateral damage". The year-on-year tax situation will change for thousands of owners. Then there are taxation factors that will affect buying, selling and inheritance. Many countries are battoning down the hatches against the immigration storm and we may well get caught in the cross-fire. (forgive the mixed metaphors).

Most businesses fear the UK leaving the EU for a reason. Having lived and worked in several EU countries, owned a property in two of them I've enjoyed all the benefits of the EU, that many people never experience I would hate to see the UK leave. The vote will be mostly people who know very little about EU trade and free movement.

Now I live in Switzerland and I can assure you the treaties in place with the EU make life far from easy. For example I pay more than double the tax in Spain than an EU resident on my rentals. The same thing will happen to all UK owners if the leave the EU. It's like the unfair pension laws when living outside the EU or commonwealth. The vast majority of UK residents don't give a sh*t because it doesn't affect them directly.

KEVESBORED wrote:
"Now I live in Switzerland and I can assure you the treaties in place with the EU make life far from easy. For example I pay more than double the tax in Spain than an EU resident on my rentals. The same thing will happen to all UK owners if they leave the EU."
That's what's worrying me KEV. Now that we're getting on in years the inheritance factor is also important. It's not just the question of what we will have to pay. It's all the bureaucracy that will go with it. We'll pass through five or ten years where nobody has a clue what's happening.
If you don't have a job or regular pension, will they annul your residence status? If we aren't EEC citizens we'll be in the same category as the masses of immigrants flooding into Europe from all over the world.
I don't reckon I'll be so badly off as I have a Spanish pension earned from over 20 years paying Spanish SS. But once again, it's not just the question of money. Will being a Spanish "pensionista" give me the right to remain resident? And then it flips over and does become about money because, as you say, you pay double the tax that I do on your rentals.
I can see why lots of English people want to break away from the Eurocrats; I know well why lots of Scots want to break away from the UK; I also know first hand why the Catalans want to get out of Spain. But in all three cases there are clouds obscuring the silver lining.

Stop to think:

There are something like 50 million voters in the UK eligible to participate in this referendum.

Of those, as few as 2-3 million are in the category of ex-pats or holiday home owners, or are actually involved personally in doing business in the EU or will be directly and materially affected by a Brexit.

All the other voters (over 40 million of them) will be voting for emotional, political or other random, non-technical reasons and will probably just be following what the politicians/campaigners/media barons and other journalists on TV will be telling them.

Scary huh ?

kevsboredagain wrote: It's like the unfair pension laws when living outside the EU or commonwealth. The vast majority of UK residents don't give a sh*t because it doesn't affect them directly.

This started worrying me over a year ago. A search at the time produced this: “If the UK were to leave the EU following a referendum, the EU regulations preventing the freezing of the state pension would no longer apply, and the UK regulations would come into effect. This means that up to 350,000 people entitled to the UK state pension living in most EU countries would suddenly no longer receive the annual increase. Those living in France, Germany, Spain, and Cyprus would find their pensions frozen. Oddly those in Slovenia and Croatia would not because of a reciprocal agreement with former Yugoslavia." But as you say, Kev, " The vast majority of UK residents don't give a sh*t because it doesn't affect them directly".

However, this is not the main point of this thread so I'll shut up!

This is an important topic. It must now be somewhere at the back of every British EU-expat's mind as to how it will affect his/her situation if Britain exits the EU. At the present date, it looks as if there is a real possibility of that.

I have little knowledge about what the economic and political position for Britain as a country will be if there is an exit. What I am interested in (selfishly) is how it would affect me and others, as individuals. I am a British expat resident in another EU member state; in my case Greece.

I am thinking that the main concerns for individuals would relate to some or all of: Taxation, Health, Travel and Residence. However, I cannot see how an EU exit will affect me very much.

Rental income from my letting property is taxable in Greece, while unearned income and pension income generated in the UK and paid to my UK bank needs to be declared to HMRC. There is a double taxation treaty between GB and Greece, so I don't have to declare that in both countries. I cannot see that this tax treaty has anything to do with the EU and thus would not be affected by Britain's departure.

On health, the benefits of the EHIC card would go, but that is only for temporary cross-border trips inside the EU and is no use to long term expat residents. For OAP's there is an agreement that residents from Britain are entitled to the same health care benefits as Greeks, with the NHS picking up the bill. The EU plays no part in that.

On the face of it, if Britain were to leave the EU, a visa as well as a passport would be needed in order to travel from the UK to a destination within the Schengen Area (the land comprising almost all of the EU states). Britain has already opted out of this and is not within the Schengen territory, but at the moment there is still no visa requirement. A change by Brussels to this rule would obviously involve quite heavy extra administrative expenditure and so could be ruled out.

Permitted residence is the one that has me worried. As an EU citizen there is no barrier to my residing in Greece; I just hold a residence certificate (called a "permit") issued by the Greek government. As a non-EU citizen I will need, for the first time, to apply for a proper residence permit and it will be open to the government, quite legally, to refuse it.

PS. As Wonkeye and kevsboredagain point out, freezing of the UK state pension would be another serious concern.

In my opinion the reality would be that the EU has as much to lose as the UK if they did try to beat us up over tariffs and other restrictions. If you look at the numbers below, is it really credible to believe that the millions of EU nationals living in the UK are going to be kicked out or are going to see punitive measures applied with regards taxations or benefits. It will take a lot of sorting out and its not going to be easy negotiations but it could be done.

Found these figures on the Migration Observatory site:

Top 10 nationalities resident in the UK (foreign citizens)
Poland 1,253,300
India 605,900
Ireland 514,600
Italy 298,800
Pakistan 298,800
Romania 290,500
Lithuania 273,900
Portugal 265,600
France 249,000
Germany 224,100

Anyway Brexit is not going to happen....the governments campaign will have scared the majority of the electorate into voting for the status quo....there is no doubt...worked in Scotland the same will happen here......no facts, no benefits only the fear of the unknown......and we call ourselves a democracy

Gary2604 wrote: Found these figures on the Migration Observatory site:

Top 10 nationalities resident in the UK (foreign citizens)
Poland 1,253,300
India 605,900
Ireland 514,600
Italy 298,800
Pakistan 298,800
Romania 290,500
Lithuania 273,900
Portugal 265,600
France 249,000
Germany 224,100

Could you post a link to the source of this please?

More than twice as many Polish as Irish? - I don't think so!

.

Were calculated from here http://www.migrationobservatory.ox.ac.u ... erview.pdf

Polish at 15% , Irish at 6% of foreign born folks living in the UK.

Garay2604
Your photo is of Balamory!! Ha! Ha!