I take advantage of having a rental property with good internet and have network drive there for offsite backups, which then doubles as a media center for the guests. All my regular documents are in the cloud with several automatic backups. If the house burnt down, I'd still have everything. Losing a lifetime of photos is not a option.bluebell wrote:In our case the robbers to the backup hard drive well!!!
In Need of Bookings. No idea which strategy to follow!!
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kevsboredagain
- Posts: 3207
- Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 9:32 am
- Location: France
- Contact:
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Joanna
- Posts: 1091
- Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2007 3:12 pm
- Location: Chester, North West England & Sidmouth, East Devon
- Contact:
Sorry for thread creep but I recommend Dropbox. I set it up a few months ago and now everything is automatically backed up remotely as I go with no effort from me. I have USB drives that I back up to as well but it's reassuring to know that even if the house burnt down everything is still out there.
Jo
Joint owner of Baker's Cottage in Chester & Chandler's Cottage in Sidmouth
Joint owner of Baker's Cottage in Chester & Chandler's Cottage in Sidmouth
Yes I keep all my cottage stuff on Dropbox too. I like being able to access it whilst I'm out and about and being able to check my calendar whilst out and about has gained me at least one booking - don't need to wait til I'm home to check and respondJoanna wrote:Sorry for thread creep but I recommend Dropbox. I set it up a few months ago and now everything is automatically backed up remotely as I go with no effort from me. I have USB drives that I back up to as well but it's reassuring to know that even if the house burnt down everything is still out there.
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kevsboredagain
- Posts: 3207
- Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 9:32 am
- Location: France
- Contact:
Dropbox here too. I have a few things on Google and have tried several others but find Dropbox the most flexible. My ISP and my own network drives offer cloud storage but it's just not as flexible. Dropbox only offer 1GB I think for free which is a bit limited for a large photo collection.Joanna wrote:Sorry for thread creep but I recommend Dropbox. I set it up a few months ago and now everything is automatically backed up remotely as I go with no effort from me. I have USB drives that I back up to as well but it's reassuring to know that even if the house burnt down everything is still out there.
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petemcveigh
- Posts: 78
- Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 2:26 pm
- Location: Davenport, Central Florida
- Contact:
Don’t forget that there are alternatives, albeit not without effort, to the listing sites and all that they entail (good and bad). I have been getting more and more disillusioned with the ‘big’ listing sites as I believe, as many others also do, that they are not working for their customers (the listers) or consumers (the renters) but are working to change the landscape in a way that is harmful to the industry (e.g. new booking fees on Homeaway) and is making it harder and harder to build and maintain relationships (e.g. removal of mail addresses etc. on VRBO). I believe that I have been able to get better quality bookings away from the main sites and build better ongoing relationships with my guests that lead to more repeats and recommendations, good rental rates and more respect for your property.
I believe that it is very unlikely that pressure from rental owners, either through feedback or walking away, will influence the VRBO’s and similar of this world. There just isn’t the collective will and/ or organisation and the numbers using the sites are just too big, with fresh canon fodder willing to fill the gaps (look at the new builds in our own market- the punters buying these will advertise somewhere). That isn’t to say as individuals we can’t walk away and look at alternatives (albeit not without thought and work).
So, my story –
For background and context, I am based in Northern Ireland and operating in Florida – a tough market with literally tens of thousands of accommodation options (villas/ hotels/ condos/ themed resorts) and one in which, I believe, the product we deliver is well undervalued!
I made a conscious effort around two ago to reduce my dependency on the rental sites and, after getting really pi**ed off at what I perceive as the continual and relentless (and deliberate) breaking of the renter/ guest relationship by, for example, removal of email addresses, I stepped this up a gear around eighteen months ago. I have, in that period, withdrawn from two paid sites and moved my VRBO from subscription to pay-per-booking – still keeping it as a safety net but have been turning down bookings from it. My calendar is at similar levels as before and I have what I believe are ‘better quality’ bookings – i.e. a more personal relationship (which I have always tried to achieve anyway but, as stated, I believe is becoming harder in the ‘book now’/ ‘talk through us’ world) where people see the villa as ‘owned’ and not just as a faceless utility.
I share this not I hope as a ‘hey, look at me’ but as a thought provoker so some may consider alternative routes instead of, or additional to if they so choose, the big sites. I know, also, that this is bread and butter to a lot of you (teaching grannies to suck eggs) but I have seen postings that seem to suggest that the listing sites are the only options so thought I would share. The health warning is, of course, that I may have this wrong – I have tried, and continue to try, different routes to market. Some worked, some failed, some might yet fail and I may have to crawl back to the big boys (but don’t believe so) but half the fun is in the trying!
So here are some of the things that have worked for me.
As it should be my first action was to take time out ( serious work over a few days using mind-mapping ( I love mind-mapping for creativity) ) to consider all the possible, probable and outrageous (thinking way, way outside the box) angles of who I should/ could market to: what channels I could/ should use; potential cost/ benefit analysis; why do people go to Florida; why do people NOT go to Florida; What channels would be easy/ difficult; what should be short/ medium/ long term objectives; what should the balance be between old-school methods and on-line?; identification and prioritisation of all these to understand which would best fit what I was trying to achieve (quality bookings (duration, rates, people), good relationships, repeat bookings, etc.).
I thought about why past guests, friend, colleagues have been to Florida, why they have thought about Florida, what they look for on holidays (anywhere), what hobbies/ interests they have that Florida would be perfect for – you get the gist.
In the end I have gone down a ‘back to good-old fashioned mediums/ think globally, act locally’ route for the most part. Some of the things that have worked well for me.
Act locally-
I formed a partnership with a local travel agent and we offer ‘bundles’ especially around golf packages (I don’t play golf myself but, from my prep work, know how big an influencer it can be). We took ads in golf diaries and on the websites of local golf clubs and we have sponsored prizes and set up stalls at Captain and open days at local clubs (Vistaprint banners, flyers and cards are just great!). This does require physical effort and time but is relatively cheap and forms direct face-to-face relationships. We are now extending this to other sports and groups (after-school clubs, photography clubs, aviation and military enthusiasts).
I looked at what organisations and professional bodies I am a member of and what opportunities they offered. It was amazing the number which have regular newsletters and were happy to carry free or low cost, tailored, advertising, often badged as a ‘special members’ offer’. This also carried over to companies (large and small).
‘Make it large’ – rather than just more bookings I have also looked at bigger/ longer bookings. E.g. for the golfing crowd, a group of men are away from a week, just talk one into bringing the family for the next two weeks (brownie points for him, booking for me). I have also had some success by looking at the conference market. This came through one of the professional bodies I am a member of who were having a sub-section conference in Orlando. Delegates do get and like the whole hotel/ networking buzz (and it is the vital part of the conference experience) but, again, the suggestion about families then joining secured bookings for my travel partner, myself and three other villa owners. You might say that this does not apply in your market but it is the idea of considering alternatives that is the message, not the specifics.
The brief summaries do not do justice to the effort required nor the rewards gained and are, at best an indicator of some of the alternative routes to market available. Hopefully they will spark some thinking and can be used as a springboard to personal ideas and innovation. I think my messages are – we may not be able to influence the big players (but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try) but we do have control of what we do personally and we do have options and also, it does no harm sometimes to think ‘what would I do if the booking sites didn’t exist’ – and then pretend they don’t!
Sorry for the ‘War and Peace’ length of this, it’s amazing what you will find to do when the Florida temp is sitting at freezing, hopefully it will stimulate some thinking.
Pete
I believe that it is very unlikely that pressure from rental owners, either through feedback or walking away, will influence the VRBO’s and similar of this world. There just isn’t the collective will and/ or organisation and the numbers using the sites are just too big, with fresh canon fodder willing to fill the gaps (look at the new builds in our own market- the punters buying these will advertise somewhere). That isn’t to say as individuals we can’t walk away and look at alternatives (albeit not without thought and work).
So, my story –
For background and context, I am based in Northern Ireland and operating in Florida – a tough market with literally tens of thousands of accommodation options (villas/ hotels/ condos/ themed resorts) and one in which, I believe, the product we deliver is well undervalued!
I made a conscious effort around two ago to reduce my dependency on the rental sites and, after getting really pi**ed off at what I perceive as the continual and relentless (and deliberate) breaking of the renter/ guest relationship by, for example, removal of email addresses, I stepped this up a gear around eighteen months ago. I have, in that period, withdrawn from two paid sites and moved my VRBO from subscription to pay-per-booking – still keeping it as a safety net but have been turning down bookings from it. My calendar is at similar levels as before and I have what I believe are ‘better quality’ bookings – i.e. a more personal relationship (which I have always tried to achieve anyway but, as stated, I believe is becoming harder in the ‘book now’/ ‘talk through us’ world) where people see the villa as ‘owned’ and not just as a faceless utility.
I share this not I hope as a ‘hey, look at me’ but as a thought provoker so some may consider alternative routes instead of, or additional to if they so choose, the big sites. I know, also, that this is bread and butter to a lot of you (teaching grannies to suck eggs) but I have seen postings that seem to suggest that the listing sites are the only options so thought I would share. The health warning is, of course, that I may have this wrong – I have tried, and continue to try, different routes to market. Some worked, some failed, some might yet fail and I may have to crawl back to the big boys (but don’t believe so) but half the fun is in the trying!
So here are some of the things that have worked for me.
As it should be my first action was to take time out ( serious work over a few days using mind-mapping ( I love mind-mapping for creativity) ) to consider all the possible, probable and outrageous (thinking way, way outside the box) angles of who I should/ could market to: what channels I could/ should use; potential cost/ benefit analysis; why do people go to Florida; why do people NOT go to Florida; What channels would be easy/ difficult; what should be short/ medium/ long term objectives; what should the balance be between old-school methods and on-line?; identification and prioritisation of all these to understand which would best fit what I was trying to achieve (quality bookings (duration, rates, people), good relationships, repeat bookings, etc.).
I thought about why past guests, friend, colleagues have been to Florida, why they have thought about Florida, what they look for on holidays (anywhere), what hobbies/ interests they have that Florida would be perfect for – you get the gist.
In the end I have gone down a ‘back to good-old fashioned mediums/ think globally, act locally’ route for the most part. Some of the things that have worked well for me.
Act locally-
I formed a partnership with a local travel agent and we offer ‘bundles’ especially around golf packages (I don’t play golf myself but, from my prep work, know how big an influencer it can be). We took ads in golf diaries and on the websites of local golf clubs and we have sponsored prizes and set up stalls at Captain and open days at local clubs (Vistaprint banners, flyers and cards are just great!). This does require physical effort and time but is relatively cheap and forms direct face-to-face relationships. We are now extending this to other sports and groups (after-school clubs, photography clubs, aviation and military enthusiasts).
I looked at what organisations and professional bodies I am a member of and what opportunities they offered. It was amazing the number which have regular newsletters and were happy to carry free or low cost, tailored, advertising, often badged as a ‘special members’ offer’. This also carried over to companies (large and small).
‘Make it large’ – rather than just more bookings I have also looked at bigger/ longer bookings. E.g. for the golfing crowd, a group of men are away from a week, just talk one into bringing the family for the next two weeks (brownie points for him, booking for me). I have also had some success by looking at the conference market. This came through one of the professional bodies I am a member of who were having a sub-section conference in Orlando. Delegates do get and like the whole hotel/ networking buzz (and it is the vital part of the conference experience) but, again, the suggestion about families then joining secured bookings for my travel partner, myself and three other villa owners. You might say that this does not apply in your market but it is the idea of considering alternatives that is the message, not the specifics.
The brief summaries do not do justice to the effort required nor the rewards gained and are, at best an indicator of some of the alternative routes to market available. Hopefully they will spark some thinking and can be used as a springboard to personal ideas and innovation. I think my messages are – we may not be able to influence the big players (but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try) but we do have control of what we do personally and we do have options and also, it does no harm sometimes to think ‘what would I do if the booking sites didn’t exist’ – and then pretend they don’t!
Sorry for the ‘War and Peace’ length of this, it’s amazing what you will find to do when the Florida temp is sitting at freezing, hopefully it will stimulate some thinking.
Pete
" Do I really look like a guy with a plan?"
A slightly off the wall suggestion that may or may not make a difference, but how about asking for the security deposit two weeks before instead of the eight weeks beforehand? I'm not hard up and could afford the security deposit, but I still object to handing over that cash so long before the holiday due date.
Other than that you have had some very good suggestions already. In your shoes, I'd be listing across as many sites as possible, embracing social media, creating your own website and networking as much as possible. There's definitely a way forward for those prepared to put the time and effort in to marketing.
Other than that you have had some very good suggestions already. In your shoes, I'd be listing across as many sites as possible, embracing social media, creating your own website and networking as much as possible. There's definitely a way forward for those prepared to put the time and effort in to marketing.
I won't repeat your text in full because of its length, but what I have quoted above might put it in a nutshell and it makes good sense to me. It comes down to "thinking out of the box".petemcveigh wrote: ..... I believe that it is very unlikely that pressure from rental owners, either through feedback or walking away, will influence the VRBO’s and similar of this world..... we may not be able to influence the big players (but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try) but we do have control of what we do personally and we do have options and also, it does no harm sometimes to think ‘what would I do if the booking sites didn’t exist’ – and then pretend they don’t!
I remember my first year and the "panic mode" you talk about.bluebell wrote:Thanks very much petemcveigh for your detailed and interesting response. Will take on board many of your comments although will probably stay in panic mode for the up coming season!
Take things slowly; sleep on each decision and discuss it to death, read everything on this forum, go way back as a lot of the stuff is still relevant.
Also, keep asking questions - someone on this forum will have come up against a similar problem that you may also encounter - everyone on here is willing to help. Some maybe a bit blunt and say the things you may not want to hear, but they will say to help not to criticise. If you want constructive criticism you will get very candid remarks, again, look at as assistance because that's how it's meant. After a while you'll get to know the personalities of the regulars.
"Write something, even if it's just a suicide note"
"There is no human problem which could not be solved if people would simply do as I advise"
"As for my amnesia, I've had it as long as I can remember"
Real name: Steve
Gender: Male
"There is no human problem which could not be solved if people would simply do as I advise"
"As for my amnesia, I've had it as long as I can remember"
Real name: Steve
Gender: Male
Thanks Essar. Actually I was renting the property for a few years but stopped once the need for a Special Travel License was needed. This would have cost me thousands to get and just not an option. Anyway, rules have changed this year, hence I am back in the rental game with old lousy photos on my listings!
I noticed yesterday that I appear on HA even though I am only with OD and Homelidays. I phoned them and even they thought that this was strange! I originally only used HA (Holiday Rentals back then) and was very satisfied with them. They found my original listing that has 5 great reviews on it. They have recommended that I pay 600GBP to have a Bronze listing just with them + the European Bundle. I should then de-activate OD and Homelidays.... they say..... all very confusing and frankly a very expensive option but I would love to get access to those 5 reviews! Oh what to do?? Many options and very little time left to get Summer bookings!
I noticed yesterday that I appear on HA even though I am only with OD and Homelidays. I phoned them and even they thought that this was strange! I originally only used HA (Holiday Rentals back then) and was very satisfied with them. They found my original listing that has 5 great reviews on it. They have recommended that I pay 600GBP to have a Bronze listing just with them + the European Bundle. I should then de-activate OD and Homelidays.... they say..... all very confusing and frankly a very expensive option but I would love to get access to those 5 reviews! Oh what to do?? Many options and very little time left to get Summer bookings!
£600 sounds a lot. I must say if I find my property on a site that I like being on but I think is maybe a mistake, I just keep quiet about it!
I just have a Classic listing with VRBO, did not pay for ANY upgrade and yet still I get enquiries from many of the other sites that I supposedly would have to pay to appear on. I would imagine if they don't think they have enough properties in a particular area they then share around amongst the other sites. This is probably why you are appearing on an HA site. I think these upgrades are a bit of a con. Granted, perhaps you get the full listing put on if you are paying but often just a brief description and good photographs draws people in.
I just have a Classic listing with VRBO, did not pay for ANY upgrade and yet still I get enquiries from many of the other sites that I supposedly would have to pay to appear on. I would imagine if they don't think they have enough properties in a particular area they then share around amongst the other sites. This is probably why you are appearing on an HA site. I think these upgrades are a bit of a con. Granted, perhaps you get the full listing put on if you are paying but often just a brief description and good photographs draws people in.
It's the same with us, Felicity. We just have a basic listing on OD, but we get a full airing on VRBO. Never asked for it; never paid for it; never even told about it, but just discovered it ourselves.FelicityA wrote:...I must say if I find my property on a site that I like being on but I think is maybe a mistake, I just keep quiet about it!
We don't expect to get much from this VRBO listing, because of where we are located. It is aimed at the USA market and priced in US Dollars, although when you make a booking, the price converts to Sterling, which is the currency we us on OD.
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LaderaCottage
- Posts: 48
- Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:10 pm
- Location: Kyrenia N Cyprus
- Contact:
Bluebell.... AND OTHERS .... Re listings on other sites
If you are on Owners Direct you have been listed for FREE on a whole load of other sites in the HomeAway Group since May 2015.
Indeed even homeaway.co.uk until a few months ago. All are certainly still on homeaway.com, vrbo.com, vacationrentals.com and a whole host of others.
To check where you are listed and to even preview your listing, go to your dashboard, click Location for example, and up near your thumbnail picture you will see your property address and listing number. Now click that link right by it that says Preview Listing, and you will find the whole family of HomeAway sites! The ones on which your property is LIVE will be shown.
I would not waste 6d on spending extra money with this group over and above a classic listing, and I would wait too for a discount code to come up. 40% discount. This hype about upgrades is just them trying to con people out of more money, and a read through https://www.trustpilot.com/review/www.o ... rect.co.uk will tell all. Save yourself £600 It is no mistake about being on other sites as they just want to look huge, but you need to check your locations carefully as many properties on these other sites are shown in totally the wrong regions! Mine was 8000 miles out on VRBO.
That is my sixpence worth, just was horrified to read the spiel from HomeAway to try and gain £600, and then when that does not work they will say something is wrong with your pictures!
If you are on Owners Direct you have been listed for FREE on a whole load of other sites in the HomeAway Group since May 2015.
Indeed even homeaway.co.uk until a few months ago. All are certainly still on homeaway.com, vrbo.com, vacationrentals.com and a whole host of others.
To check where you are listed and to even preview your listing, go to your dashboard, click Location for example, and up near your thumbnail picture you will see your property address and listing number. Now click that link right by it that says Preview Listing, and you will find the whole family of HomeAway sites! The ones on which your property is LIVE will be shown.
I would not waste 6d on spending extra money with this group over and above a classic listing, and I would wait too for a discount code to come up. 40% discount. This hype about upgrades is just them trying to con people out of more money, and a read through https://www.trustpilot.com/review/www.o ... rect.co.uk will tell all. Save yourself £600 It is no mistake about being on other sites as they just want to look huge, but you need to check your locations carefully as many properties on these other sites are shown in totally the wrong regions! Mine was 8000 miles out on VRBO.
That is my sixpence worth, just was horrified to read the spiel from HomeAway to try and gain £600, and then when that does not work they will say something is wrong with your pictures!