Should this section be restricted to members only?
- Cassis
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Should this section be restricted to members only?
I ask the question because when a member opens a topic here they don't always know whether the person they are talking about is a genuine guest or a scam.
If it turns out they are genuine, the guest could be upset about being discussed here - even if the information posted about them is in the public domain.
On this thread for instance viewtopic.php?t=25726 Carl asked about a query he wasn't sure of. I did a few searches online and traced the likely enquirer to a profile on LinkedIn. I posted a picture of the person and their profile with the intention of showing that they were probably genuine.
However, another member raised the issue in a PM to me of what the person concerned would think if for some reason he came across his enquiry being discussed in a public forum.
Hence the question.
If it turns out they are genuine, the guest could be upset about being discussed here - even if the information posted about them is in the public domain.
On this thread for instance viewtopic.php?t=25726 Carl asked about a query he wasn't sure of. I did a few searches online and traced the likely enquirer to a profile on LinkedIn. I posted a picture of the person and their profile with the intention of showing that they were probably genuine.
However, another member raised the issue in a PM to me of what the person concerned would think if for some reason he came across his enquiry being discussed in a public forum.
Hence the question.
Last edited by Cassis on Thu Feb 25, 2016 2:03 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Real name Phil
Moved to France in 2004
Likes ducks, nature, gardening, furniture restoration, DIY, rugby, blah, blah.
Moved to France in 2004
Likes ducks, nature, gardening, furniture restoration, DIY, rugby, blah, blah.
How about that if a member is questioning whether they think someone is a scammer it goes in a members only section? Once it is proven to be scammy (or a warning about another proven scammer) then it can go in a scam list where each post is merely a mention of a known scam - with no discussion or additions like "I had that one last week etc.
That would be like chatting behind closed doors - if worried then let the public know and maybe someone, even maybe not a current member who may then join us and respond with relevant info. TBH most of the things that get put up on this site are obvious scams and are there to warn/confirm the not so well informed of possible issues.
Where there is genuine doubt, LMH members seem to respond with good practical advice and in appropriate ways which I don't think harms anyone.
Where there is genuine doubt, LMH members seem to respond with good practical advice and in appropriate ways which I don't think harms anyone.
I don't profess to own anything here apart from my own opinion.
- Cassis
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I agree that most of the posts on here are obvious scams and members usually respond with good advice.joddle wrote: TBH most of the things that get put up on this site are obvious scams and are there to warn/confirm the not so well informed of possible issues.
Where there is genuine doubt, LMH members seem to respond with good practical advice and in appropriate ways which I don't think harms anyone.
I don't recall anyone but members contributing to the section so maybe making it for members only would not harm its usefulness.
Real name Phil
Moved to France in 2004
Likes ducks, nature, gardening, furniture restoration, DIY, rugby, blah, blah.
Moved to France in 2004
Likes ducks, nature, gardening, furniture restoration, DIY, rugby, blah, blah.
- French Cricket
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I think a few of us have posed Cassis' question before, and I for one am of the firm opinion that posts questioning the scam-ness or otherwise of an email or enquiry definitely should be behind closed doors.
I'm uncomfortable in any case about full names and email addresses being published unless there is clear evidence that it's a scam - it's too easy to condemn someone who, say, is writing in a second language or (like me!) has an unusual name.
I'm uncomfortable in any case about full names and email addresses being published unless there is clear evidence that it's a scam - it's too easy to condemn someone who, say, is writing in a second language or (like me!) has an unusual name.
- Cassis
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That seems fair to me and avoids discussing innocent guests in public.Rosie wrote:How about that if a member is questioning whether they think someone is a scammer it goes in a members only section? Once it is proven to be scammy (or a warning about another proven scammer) then it can go in a scam list where each post is merely a mention of a known scam - with no discussion or additions like "I had that one last week etc.
Real name Phil
Moved to France in 2004
Likes ducks, nature, gardening, furniture restoration, DIY, rugby, blah, blah.
Moved to France in 2004
Likes ducks, nature, gardening, furniture restoration, DIY, rugby, blah, blah.
- PW in Polemi
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I feel sure that several people have benefitted from finding this section and its useful information via dear old Mr Google, then subsequently become LMHers, so my feeling is to keep it open to all.
The thing we must all remember is ...
unless we post in members only, the whole world and his wife can read what we post, so we should be careful what we post about enquirers. We should also remember that not all members are genuine - Paolo is good, but he's not infallible, there have been some instances of apparently not-genuine-holiday accommodation owners becoming members and stirring up trouble.
Rosie's idea is OK as far as it goes - but who does all the extra work of sifting through the members only scam mentions and then putting appropriate bits in the scam section? I'm sure Paolo has more than enough to do already without us adding more.
I feel that the name and email of the potential scammer should be disguised or omitted when posting "is this a scam?" queries. The text of the perceived scam email is often sufficient to show it's a scam, without the necessity of adding the identifying details. This would avoid a genuine enquirer finding his personal details posted here for all and sundry to see, linked to a warning of a possible scam.
The thing we must all remember is ...
unless we post in members only, the whole world and his wife can read what we post, so we should be careful what we post about enquirers. We should also remember that not all members are genuine - Paolo is good, but he's not infallible, there have been some instances of apparently not-genuine-holiday accommodation owners becoming members and stirring up trouble.
Rosie's idea is OK as far as it goes - but who does all the extra work of sifting through the members only scam mentions and then putting appropriate bits in the scam section? I'm sure Paolo has more than enough to do already without us adding more.
I feel that the name and email of the potential scammer should be disguised or omitted when posting "is this a scam?" queries. The text of the perceived scam email is often sufficient to show it's a scam, without the necessity of adding the identifying details. This would avoid a genuine enquirer finding his personal details posted here for all and sundry to see, linked to a warning of a possible scam.
Dogs have masters. Cats have slaves!
- Cassis
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So are we also agreed that it is okay to post LinkedIn profiles etc. in response to queries about possible scammers? This information is in the public domain, so I personally have no problem with it, but as someone raised this with me I thought it worth asking the question to see whether others are comfortable with it.
Real name Phil
Moved to France in 2004
Likes ducks, nature, gardening, furniture restoration, DIY, rugby, blah, blah.
Moved to France in 2004
Likes ducks, nature, gardening, furniture restoration, DIY, rugby, blah, blah.
- Cassis
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If we don't think we should reveal information that's in the public domain, it seems illogical that the OP should to disclose information that leads to about the potential scammer's identity. Like names, emails etc.
Real name Phil
Moved to France in 2004
Likes ducks, nature, gardening, furniture restoration, DIY, rugby, blah, blah.
Moved to France in 2004
Likes ducks, nature, gardening, furniture restoration, DIY, rugby, blah, blah.
I can see some argument for a members only thread BUT as has already been said - who is going to maintain and police it? I think it will fail because it won't get updated enough.
Two other points though:
1 - As has been said before, if any member wants to query something, they do not have to disclose full details about people - or they can disguise true identities. Most of us will be able to spot the clues we need to be able to offer comment or advice - and if indeed the person is proven to be a scammer then we can add the fuller details later in the thread if we think fit.
2 - If information is already in the public domain then its already out there - so what's the point of putting it behind closed doors again.
Two other points though:
1 - As has been said before, if any member wants to query something, they do not have to disclose full details about people - or they can disguise true identities. Most of us will be able to spot the clues we need to be able to offer comment or advice - and if indeed the person is proven to be a scammer then we can add the fuller details later in the thread if we think fit.
2 - If information is already in the public domain then its already out there - so what's the point of putting it behind closed doors again.
I don't profess to own anything here apart from my own opinion.
- Cassis
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Joddle - there is already one Members Only section.joddle wrote:I can see some argument for a members only thread BUT as has already been said - who is going to maintain and police it? I think it will fail because it won't get updated enough.
viewforum.php?f=36
There's no reason why this one should not be treated in the same way.
Maybe you've never noticed it because as far as we members are concerned it operates just like any other section on the forum - just it cannot be located in Google searches.
That's it - no extra work, policing etc. required.
Real name Phil
Moved to France in 2004
Likes ducks, nature, gardening, furniture restoration, DIY, rugby, blah, blah.
Moved to France in 2004
Likes ducks, nature, gardening, furniture restoration, DIY, rugby, blah, blah.
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Some people might get upset that their innocent enquiry was seen to be scammy and, if they found their name on this site, might take the hump and decide to book somewhere else. It would be a shame if any of us inadvertently lost a fellow owner a booking - we all know it's better to double check an odd looking enquiry, but it could give the enquirer the impression that the holiday home owner doesn't trust them.joddle wrote:
2 - If information is already in the public domain then its already out there - so what's the point of putting it behind closed doors again.
- Cassis
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I think that was the point of the person who PMed me about the details I had unearthed about the (non-)scammer in question.gitemontjoly wrote:Some people might get upset that their innocent enquiry was seen to be scammy and, if they found their name on this site, might take the hump and decide to book somewhere else. It would be a shame if any of us inadvertently lost a fellow owner a booking - we all know it's better to double check an odd looking enquiry, but it could give the enquirer the impression that the holiday home owner doesn't trust them.
Personally I reckon the chances are slim to zero, but I thought it worth seeing what others thought about it.
Real name Phil
Moved to France in 2004
Likes ducks, nature, gardening, furniture restoration, DIY, rugby, blah, blah.
Moved to France in 2004
Likes ducks, nature, gardening, furniture restoration, DIY, rugby, blah, blah.
- kevsboredagain
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I've made my views on this section many times before. Too much second guessing on spelling mistakes, publishing fake email addresses and names which may well belong innocent people.
It's definitely useful to see the tactics involved in a scam and the wording used but trying to publish every detail and relying on this section to protect you against scammers is futile. If you need to match up a name or email address to know if it's a scam, then it's only a matter of time before you become a victim.
It's definitely useful to see the tactics involved in a scam and the wording used but trying to publish every detail and relying on this section to protect you against scammers is futile. If you need to match up a name or email address to know if it's a scam, then it's only a matter of time before you become a victim.