Copycat cottage name!

Agencies and other headaches, keys and cleaners, running costs and contracts...in short, all the things we spend so much of our time doing behind the scenes.<br>
newtimber
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Post by newtimber »

PW in Polemi wrote:
newtimber wrote:There are lots of Albion Cottages around the country run as holiday cottages - it's not a unique trading name. It's just the name of the property that they're advertising for rent - if that is what it is.
Yes, but if somebody is looking for a property in Cirencester (for example), then the Albion Cottages in other locations should not show up. But in this instance of double naming, the duplicate named cottage is next door, so would show up in a search for that area.
If they advertise the cottage as 2 Albion Cottages and that's its registered official address, I can't see the problem.
They aren't using it as a trade name - they are merely giving the name of the property that is being rented. Their business may be called something quite different - they may not even be calling it anything at all if it's done via an agent.
newtimber
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Post by newtimber »

Bunny wrote:I'm very confused by all this. When we bought our property we wanted to change the spelling of our official house name. We had to pay a fee to the local authority and they were very strict about duplicates in the vicinity etc and were very clear about what we could or couldn't call our house. So a duplicate name cannot be an official registered address.
As I understand it, it's not a duplicate. There are a numbered row of properties called 1-5 Albion Cottages. In their advertisement, the agents of the new people have titled the property Albion Cottage without putting the number in front of it (perhaps because it is their policy not to reveal the exact property for security reasons which is perfectly reasonable and understandable).

I stand by to be corrected...
Bunny
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Post by Bunny »

newtimber wrote:
Bunny wrote:I'm very confused by all this. When we bought our property we wanted to change the spelling of our official house name. We had to pay a fee to the local authority and they were very strict about duplicates in the vicinity etc and were very clear about what we could or couldn't call our house. So a duplicate name cannot be an official registered address.
As I understand it, it's not a duplicate. There are a numbered row of properties called 1-5 Albion Cottages. In their advertisement, the agents of the new people have titled the property Albion Cottage without putting the number in front of it (perhaps because it is their policy not to reveal the exact property for security reasons which is perfectly reasonable and understandable).

I stand by to be corrected...
If that is the case, and as frustrating as it is, the neighbour is only using their correct official address. I don't think the OP has much recourse, other than to add the house number to their own description/advertising and appeal to the neighbour to do the same. Surely the same must happening to owners who own properties in blocks of flats where there are more than one FHL which is not unusual?
polkadot
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Post by polkadot »

Thanks for the replies and opinions which were all very helpful. As someone said I could act upon it by the "passing off" law. I haven't named my cottage officially as a postal address and thinking about it I don't particularly want too. I only named it from the address because mine was the only holiday let and I didn't want a number to identify it because I prefer it to be private from the general public, unless someone books it.

I've thought about it and I'd prefer to use the address and ask them to do the same, only the numbers will be different. It's more authentic and wouldn't cost anything. It means me renaming my Google maps entry etc which is a nuisance as they'll probably stop letting it out next year when they realise it's not as easy or as lucrative as they thought! Especially as they live at a distance and others have to clean and manage bookings while I do everything myself which is the only way it is financially worthwhile.
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Nemo
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Post by Nemo »

polkadot wrote: - they'll probably stop letting it out next year when they realise it's not as easy or as lucrative as they thought! Especially as they live at a distance and others have to clean and manage bookings while I do everything myself which is the only way it is financially worthwhile.
As many of us here are off site owners, I wouldn't be too quick to suggest it's not viable at a distance. It is, it's just a question of knowing how. Your neighbours may or may not pick up on that learning curve, but I wouldn't rely on them packing it in. :wink:
polkadot
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Post by polkadot »

I can't imagine it being worthwhile financially if one isn't dealing with it oneself - is it? I know they want it to pay and expect a profit. There are unforeseen problems too such as damages you'd never imagine can happen, or maybe I've just been unlucky.
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Nemo
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Post by Nemo »

Damage or breakdowns can, and sometimes have to, be managed from a distance. Many of us off site owners have to find ways round that and reliable local help. There are also lots of owners who use agencies; the figures must stack up for some or else they wouldn't have so much inventory on their books.
akwe-xavante
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Post by akwe-xavante »

As I see it they are deliberately taking advantage of your situation.

If you can't get them on the name of the property try to make it difficult in other ways.

I would get your property renamed officially via the council asap before they do it before you.

The post office website will let you know if they have changed the name of their property already. If they haven't get yours changed asap.

They have done what they have done deliberately I wouldn't hesitate to make things difficult for them.

I would be seeking advice but I would also write to your local council, the post office and next doors letting agent, mortgage lender and inland revenue.

I would suspect that next door is running a holiday let illegally insofar as they have probably not notified the inland revenue, local council or mortgage lender about its change of use.

If your letting as a holiday let for more than 12 weeks a year they need to let the council know this and should be paying business tax, not council tax. They probably haven't informed inland revenue or any mortgage lender either. They might of, of course.

Download the Title Register from the land registry's website for £3. This will give you the owners details and where they live, it will also tell you if they have a loan or mortgage on the property and who the lender is.

If they have a mortgage, have they informed the lender about what they are doing. It is illegal to rent or change a properties use without firstly notifying the lender, get them this way. Let the lender know that the property is being rented out as a holiday let opposed to a permanent let . It may of course be a buy to let mortgage but find out if it isn't. Buy to permanently rent is different to buy to let as a holiday let. They may of broken an agreement with the lender.

Inform the inland revenue about its change of use and Is the cleaner, the gardener and whoever declaring taxable income? Inland revenue should be interested.

Enter into an official dispute with your neighbour via a solicitor about the problem. Seek advice first but by doing this even if you have no intensions of following through, by entering into a neighbour dispute both properties become temporarily worthless and cannot be sold until a dispute is resolved. On entering into a dispute let the letting agency know about the dispute. The letting agent will drop them immediately. Let any mortgage lender know of the dispute too, this won't make the lender very happy at all as the property that they have an investment in just became worthless overnight and they will put substantial pressure on the mortgagee to get the dispute resolved asap.
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French Cricket
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Post by French Cricket »

Wow. :shock:

That's what I call a heavy handed approach. I hope I never cross you in any way, a-x!
akwe-xavante
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Post by akwe-xavante »

They have done what they have done deliberately.

No mercy
Bunny
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Post by Bunny »

I can't help feeling that's a bit 'sledge hammer to crack a nut'. Whilst I have no doubt that they have acted deliberately and with total disregard for the OP, I wouldn't be in any rush to get into a major dispute with a neighbour when running a holiday let. I wouldn't want to be constantly worrying about how the neighbour might seek revenge and interfere with my guests' enjoyment of their holiday. As a guest, if I arrived at a holiday cottage and discovered a major neighbour dispute going on, I would feel quite uncomfortable staying there. I would approach them nicely first, but if they will not co-operate, there are more subtle ways to turn the situation around and to the OP's advantage. Polkadot, are the neighbours listed with an agency? If so, the reverse of your problem could happen i.e. guests see your neighbour's property with the agency, google it, find your website and book yours instead. And I would have no qualms in taking the booking, even if I knew where it originated from. Could it turn out to your advantage if you have the nicer cottage of the two even if you are slightly dearer?
akwe-xavante
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Post by akwe-xavante »

I would approach them nicely first.

Absolutely but I don't think you'll get anywhere though. They've thought this through and knowingly done what they have done without regard for the neighbour's existing business.

I think the OP is by far on the loosing side. An overwhelming majority of people search online for holiday accommodation using letting agents and want to pay / book online too. Having booked a few people, a small number might then google for more info about the property and the neighbourhood, what's on, things to do, places to go etc and in the process may come across what they believe is the same property they have already booked. It isn't though in this case.

By far, fewer people people do things the opposite way round and those that do are far more likely to want to pay and book online there and then rather than on arrival or by cheque in the post or bacs if they can book using a card online there and then.

So for this reason I believe the reverse will happen with those that do use google or some other search engine to find a property rather than use an agency. They discover they can't book using a card on the proprietors own website but they can on the agents website and it's cheaper too in this case and not realising of course that its a different property they are booking until its too late.

Both properties are going to have problems, matching the right guests with the right property on arrival. Proprietors are going to have to ask for proof of booking and or id to make sure the right guests get the right property. Both at some point are going to have to say "You want to be next door". What will happen if someone is already in and on holiday and a family knock on the door, the wrong door wanting to be in.

Interesting though that if these people have booked next door via a letting agent and knocked on the wrong door to find its already booked with guests already in occupancy they'll phone the letting agent and complain. A "Double booking". What will happen if the reverse happens.

What happens if guests arrive at the wrong house and theirs nobody there to meet & greet, because your not expecting guests that day/week?

I think we have recipe for an amusing new story line for East Enders or Coronation Street here.
Bunny
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Post by Bunny »

You're probably right akwe-xavante. But at least, being on site, Polkadot can court the neighbours' guests as repeats. If Polkadot has the nicer and larger cottage, I've no doubt those that previously booked the neighbour's through an agency would be quite happy to return direct to another known owner. I wouldn't normally advocate such a tact, but if the neighbours won't play ball, then all's fair in love and war etc....
polkadot
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Post by polkadot »

Oh wow a lot been going on here since I last looked! I haven't done anything yet! I agree that the inland Rev, etc probably haven't been informed. The owner of the cottage on the other side of mine was going to let it out but discovered there was no tax relief. I don't understand how that works because I don't earn enough to pay tax so don't know that area. However, the other owner does pay tax yet is going ahead with holiday letting so I guess he isn't doing it legitimately. Could be worth me looking into. I will check the Land Registry too. Thanks!
Bunny
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Post by Bunny »

I'm even more confused now. There seems to be another neighbour who is considering lettings, for which you or they incorrectly believe there is no tax relief available.

I wouldn't just assume that someone who pays tax is letting illegitimately. I pay tax and my lettings are 100% legitimate and declared.

I think you need to gather some facts and mug up on how FHL's work before you talk to your neighbours, because you seem to be basing viability of your neighbour's/s' lettings on a lot on assumptions without foundation, for which you could come unstuck if you wade in.
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