Disrespectful guests

From the moment they step through the door your bookings become guests, and their experiences determine whether they ever come back.
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AngloDutch
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Disrespectful guests

Post by AngloDutch »

Well, after a month's break with not a guest on site, we had a booking for a group of 10 locals (including a child and baby) for 5 nights over Easter. I met them on arrival and showed them around our farmhouse, including explaining the recycling and saying that as they were staying for almost a week to let us have their recycling half way so that it doesn't begin to pile up (and stink!) during their stay. I also showed them the little 'green waste' container under the sink and said please only use for biodegradable waste, and that they could tip it out into the green container outside in the grounds.

Some of the family turned up later on (with the baby) and when I met them I mentioned that they could put nappies into an empty bin bag that I had left for them in the grey container outside.

Unfortunately they weren't the best listeners, because we noticed that they were throwing paper, plastic, silver foil into the green container outside and also found out that they had tossed loose nappies into another container outside, which is used for plastic recycling (and which was full of plastic at the time, so couldn't be easily confused).
We only noticed this on the day that they were leaving, so didn't bother to say anything.

But when we went into the farmhouse after they had left, we began to notice that they had damaged quite a few things and done their best to cover it up.

Kitchen:

A blue fabric seat cushion now has a yellow stain (curry?) which we have been unable to remove.

A large plastic sieve was partially melted and had obviously been placed against the oven in the kitchen (sticker above the oven, in Dutch and English warning not to place anything on or near the oven when it is in operation). This sieve had been placed in the back of a cupboard.

Also pushed right into the back of a cupboard was a broken (and extemely jagged) tall glass, which I just saw in time when I went to grab it to move it to the front of the shelf.

Then we noticed that the metal filter from the plug in the sink was missing. After looking in all the drawers, I put my rubber gloves on and spent 20 minutes going through the green container to see if it had been thrown out with the potato peelings. No luck.
It was only by chance that we decided to dust the top of a large tall cupboard in the sitting room that we came across the filter, which now had a melted candle on top of it. We have constant problems with the drains being blocked in the kitchen and also have a sticker saying please not to put food waste, oil etc. down the sink (along with the oven, the only stickers we have found necessary to place), yet these people take the filter out and use it as a candle base in another room?!

Sitting Room:

There are now two deep scratches (through to the wood) across the top of a black CD cabinet which had lasted 10 years without a mark on it!

Bedrooms:

They obviously did not think much of the positioning of our furniture in some of the bedrooms. We have 3 bedrooms with twin beds which are positioned directly next to each other. They decided that the beds should be in an 'L' shape in one of the bedrooms and rearranged the beds along the walls. All the side tables, fans, bedside lights, clock radios and extension leads were piled up in one corner.

We spent a good few extra hours cleaning, especially the kitchen which was filthy with shoe scuffs along a white wall and the fridge which was amazingly dirty and from which they had removed the plastic shelving because it was obviously in the way!

First of all, we ask in the 'house notes' (we do not use the word 'rules') not to move the furniture around, yet these people move every piece of furniture in some of the rooms and then leave it as such!
We are so glad that we did not have a direct same day changeover when they left, because that is always our greatest nightmare (apart from a guest starting a fire of course) that some poor family will be inconvenienced because we cannot complete the cleaning in time.

A broken glass and damaged sieve does not cost much. We can probably use a marker pen on the scratched CD cabinet. The cost to replace the seat cushion and the extra time needed to rub marks of walls, to re-sort their rubbish (our council will not empty the containers if they are seen to be incorrectly sorted), to rearrange furniture and the extra cleaning in the kitchen is what is annoying us.

We are currently holding a €200 security deposit from them. If you were in the same situation, would you withhold an amount from this deposit, and how much? It would be interesting to know how other owners (would) react to disrespectful guests.
Last edited by AngloDutch on Fri Apr 01, 2016 1:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Hells Bells
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Post by Hells Bells »

If the house took longer to clean than usual, yes you should deduct a reasonable amount from the deposit for the extra cleaning,for the resorting of the rubbish, and for the cost of replacing any items damaged beyond repair. I don't normally charge for glasses and small items, but in this case where you could have been injured by their attempts to hide it, I might be tempted to do so.
bessie
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Post by bessie »

I would keep it all,and explain that they had clearly hidden damage ,made extra work on sorting rubbish and not had the good manners to own up.
I accept small breaks cups,glass etc but when they put things out of sight like that and think it OK .
No keep the money most lightly they won't care to them it's a small cost for been careless. :roll:
salmoncottage
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Post by salmoncottage »

When we first opened we had guests with a new baby, Mum & Dad, Grandad & Grandma, nice people all looking to enjoy some time together with the new granchild. We have laminated stickers prominently diplayed above each toilet cistern near the flush button, it reads something like, "no nappies or towels down the toilet, please use the bin provided". They left on the Saturday and the housekeeper called to say the loos were backing up :?
Next guests were due in on the Monday and we managed to get our plumber to come out on Sunday to investigate. Sure enough it was nappies etc. Our drains are totaly independent and go from the house to a manhole then on to the the main drains, so no other waste can possible enter the manhole except from our house.
after a costly bill from the plumber and extra work for the housekeeper we informed the guests about the issue only to be blasted over the phone that "It wasnt us, it must have come from somewhere else go and talk to your neighbours about it".
We did explane the above but it got even more heated so we just backed off and stood the cost. Not worth the agro.
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AngloDutch
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Post by AngloDutch »

Thanks for everyone's input.

We have often returned deposits completely in the past because we were worried about retaliatory negative reviews. Problem guests have almost always come from agencies who have been very important to us over the years (one agency has produced 220 bookings for us since 2005) and the guests are sent an email by the agency to leave a review and rate our property after they have departed.

This particular group came through a local listing site where most people contact us via our own site link, so they cannot leave a review (or which could not be removed by us later).

One of the adults in the group was quite severely mentally handicapped which although could have explained some of the damage, it does not excuse the obvious hiding of the broken items (we have an honesty box in the house to cover minor damage and this was empty when we checked it). We're sure that it was not the daughter that was re-arranging all the furniture and not following our recycling requests.
It would have made a big difference to us if the parents had come to us and asked first if they could have re-arranged the beds (maybe the daughter wanted the bed in a certain position or the parents piled up the bedside tables in case she would knock a lamp onto the floor). We would have been very understanding and would probably have helped as well.

Actually, a few hours into the cleaning, the parents of the handicapped girl returned to the house and said could they use the loo as their daughter had had an accident and had to be cleaned. We were already quite angry with them because of the state of the house but couldn't really turn them away as their daughter was in quite a stressful state.

From now on we are just about fully booked until the middle of June and hope that it's not going to be a season of stressful bookings (we've had some seasons where we were glad when the winter finally came). The only thing that we can be glad that we didn't do yet and that was to deep clean the carpets....
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Post by zebedee »

Dreadful and inexcusable behaviour by your guests. I would have no problem keeping the whole deposit. You must be very upset, I would be.
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Post by russellt »

AngloDutch wrote:could they use the loo as their daughter had had an accident and had to be cleaned.
I applaud you for doing that, in spite of the annoyances.
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greenbarn
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Post by greenbarn »

What HelenB said. You need to itemise and justify any amount that you retain, but that could be quite a bit - what's the going rate for sorting through rubbish? The fact that the council won't collect it means that you have no choice but to do it.
The minor damage they'll simply deny, so maybe not worth the aggro, although if it does take a significant time to put right, why not charge?
I wouldn't make a charge for the broken glass, pointing out that you wouldn't have charged for it if they'd told you about it so there was no need to put it to the back of a cupboard where it very nearly caused injury.
Then make a wax effigy of them and stick pins in it.
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Mouse
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Post by Mouse »

Yes I would keep money back from the deposit.
As an owner I won't put up with disrespect and hidden damage. My call is that if it's an isolated incident and not that expensive to put right then I let it go.....but once it starts to build up I retain monies but of course explain.
In nearly every case that I've retained monies I've still been out of pocket and if challenged explain this showing receipts if necessary.
I hate doing it but I'm not being taken as a mug.
Thankfully I've only had to do it once in the last 5 years or so, in the early days it was quite regular :cry:

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Post by KathyG »

We've had several difficult incidents with lack of recycling, ours isn't taken away either if not sorted properly so I now put in the T&Cs that there's a £50 charge if the bins have to be re-sorted. Haven't had a problem since. :)
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rammy100
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Post by rammy100 »

I too would retain money from the deposit to cover the damage. This is precisely what it is to be used for.

If I were you I would list everything as you have in your mail although keep the emotion out of it. Keep everything factual and to the point. Photos to demonstrate the damage help a lot.

I think a lot of us on here (myself included) take it personally when damage is left behind by inconsiderate guests but I have found it helps if I can detach myself from the issue and just treat it as a job.

Add up the costs, including your time to reach an amount to deduct and if there is any money left return it.
Here we go again........
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AngloDutch
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Post by AngloDutch »

salmoncottage wrote:When we first opened we had guests with a new baby, Mum & Dad, Grandad & Grandma, nice people all looking to enjoy some time together with the new granchild. We have laminated stickers prominently diplayed above each toilet cistern near the flush button, it reads something like, "no nappies or towels down the toilet, please use the bin provided". They left on the Saturday and the housekeeper called to say the loos were backing up :?
Who in their right mind would put a nappy down the loo? Everyone, including those with a new baby, sees that a nappy swells up when it gets wet. Quite unbelievable that someone could actually do that, especially when there was a warning sign as well.
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AngloDutch
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Post by AngloDutch »

Well, out of the frying pan and into the fire.

Next group has just arrived. It's a booking via an agency and we always get their details (well, just lead party name, street and email address plus a phone number) two weeks before arrival. As soon as we receive this info from the agency, we always send a welcome email out explaining to the guests where they can park and our bank details so that they can transfer the additional costs (very important with agency bookings, as the commission is 36%!)
We also ask them to let us know if they will be arriving after 6 p.m.

Well, we never received any reply from these people and also no payment. We cannot stop agency guests from paying the additional costs on arrival in cash but we try to deter it, as it involves a drive to the nearest bank plus a €6 bank fee each time.

Anyway, these new guests decided to pay in cash this evening and I made sure that I reminded them that, as stated in our email, there is a €6 bank fee which we pass on to them. Immediately I said this, I was rounded on as though we had a nerve to ask them to pay the fee. I just said that if everyone decided to pay in cash, then the bank fees would soon mount up to several hundred Euros per year, and that is why we have to deduct this when returning the security deposit.
I just don't understand why they didn't transfer the money, like 99% of the other agency guests do, and then there would have been no fee, as it is charged by our bank when you deposit cash, and I had warned them in the email as well!

When I was showing them the farmhouse, two of their kids smashed into one of the bedroom side tables and sent the lamp and alarm clock flying. The parents did tell them off but I am just wondering what the farmhouse will look like on Sunday evening when they leave.

While I was with the parents in the house, their kids took over our garden, even after the parents had asked me which part of the grounds are connected to their guest accommodation! Not only that, but my daughters told me that their kids had run into our garage and stripped the walls of various skipping ropes, etc. (which belong to our children). No one has ever done that ever before in the last 10 years - what next, will they ask if they can borrow our car, or maybe they won't ask....?

I also warned their parents that the trampoline was not yet ready for the season, as it did not have a safety net attached, but it didn't bother them that their little kids could end up landing head-first onto the concrete.

Then a ball was thrown over the hedge and amazingly, the father moved a very heavy plank propped up against a gate (so big and heavy that it blocks the access) and let the kids go through the gate (after unlatching it) to fetch their ball next door. Only, he didn't know that the neighbour has a very big and mean rottweiler. I didn't see this going on as I was busy in the kitchen, until my daughter came and told me. By the time I went to look, they had all gone inside for the night. I will mention to one of the fathers tomorrow that their kids risk being mauled if they venture onto the neighbour's property. It looks like we will have to get a padlock and a 'Beware of the dog' sign....

We are quite convinced that there are many people who just don't understand the principle of a holiday let where the owner lives on site. To them it is one big camping site or Centre Parks complex where everything around them is for their use and enjoyment, and we are just the reception staff, who can be relied on to give them some extra loo rolls or some kitchen impliment that they already have.
Last edited by AngloDutch on Fri Apr 01, 2016 7:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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joddle
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Post by joddle »

I'm with the keep the deposit view - what's the point of having one if when it comes to the crunch you don't use it! If they do put up a negative comment simply add your comments in exactly the way you have described here - people will then know the comments are not justified - especially have loads of other good reviews. Of course we all like to have 100% scores but not at any cost - and I don't hold with being "blackmailed" by either guests or the likes of "trip-advisor" types of systems. If you have been open and fair then you should not worry - and you do have the upper hand and thus some power - you have their money!
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Post by Bunny »

AngloDutch, I would definitely charge for your additional cleaning time and damages. As others have said, I forego minor damage, but when there is a long list or hidden, I would definitely charge and am beginning to charge more often, when I would have previously let it go.

With regard to your current guests, I've twice had damage within minutes of arrival caused by unruly children, which went totally unchallenged by disrespectful parents. The last time it happened I also had their little darlings running riot in our own garden, helping themselves to our personal things and leaving them strewn across our drive. A large flower pot was also knocked over. I came so close to cancelling the booking there and then, but said nothing. Sure enough it was left in a dreadful state. I charged and they disputed it. However, I stood my ground and eventually they accepted it but decided to give me 'some advice' about how I was 'in their face'. I've decided that if it ever happens again, I'm going to cancel the booking and be done with it. If they behave like that on arrival, nothing will change, so I see no reason to give them the opportunity to cause more damage. I don't see why we should put up with such blatant disrespect. I'll use the clause in my T&Cs about 'not causing noise disruption or nuisance to the owner or neighbours.'
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