When that gut feeling proves right...

From the moment they step through the door your bookings become guests, and their experiences determine whether they ever come back.
salmoncottage
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Post by salmoncottage »

We had that "not fit for purpose" line and "tripadvisor threats" thrown at us too a few years ago from a group who damaged a leather couch beyond repair, they did everything they could to avoid accepting responsibility for the damage. They too expected our insureres to stump up for their lack of care. We ended up sending them the damage deposit back just to get rid of the sight and sound of them (they were a group of 4 teachers :? )
Move right on and say good riddance.
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Jenster
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Post by Jenster »

This has made me think...is it necessary to have a clause in your rental agreement to say that guests will be billed for unreasonable damage? Does anyone have this? I always thought there was no point because how would I make them pay but as you say if it is that bad there is always the small claims court.
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Ben McNevis
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Post by Ben McNevis »

These guests are truly nasty. I agree with Salmon that the logical route is to move on and forget it, but if it were me, I don't think I could do that.

I would respond with an email like this:

Dear guests,

I have read your email with interest. Our position has not shifted and quite simply is that if you cause damage to our property, you are liable to pay for that damage and all the consequences of that damage in full.

We will not need the name and address of your solicitor. The Small Claims Procedure is straightforward and inexpensive and does not require solicitors.

Your email seems to contain a threat to damage our reputation on TripAdvisor if we pursue our claim against you. We have passed your threat (copy of your email) to the Abuse department at TripAdvisor. Review blackmail is a surprisingly common tactic of those who cause damage and try to evade responsibility!

You suggest that you have photographs which give you cause for complaint. Naturally we would be interested to see them. However, we cannot entertain the idea that you can dodge your responsibility for damage by claiming fault with the property. If there was truly a problem with cleanliness or the standard of equipment, you would have reported it to us on arrival and we would have sent our cleaners to rectify it immediately. There is no reason for you to tolerate any shortcomings in the state of the property and I'm sorry that you didn't realise that you could simply let us know in order to get them rectified.
Cheers, Ben
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Sam V
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Post by Sam V »

Thanks Ben, that's a great help, I'm a natural redhead, so in my nature not to back down easily!

I get fed up of reading guest's misdemeanours and then they deny any responsibility and further citing other unfounded issues.

I sent their reply to my manager and she is now furious, and wants her expenses added to the claim, she didn't charge them for her time out of goodwill, although in our terms we do say we will charge for call outs outside our usual obligations. She says they lied to her that they had locked themselves out through the front door, which they hadn't as it was triple locked from the inside with the keys in the lock and wasted her time from 11:30pm-2.30am on a bank holiday Saturday night!
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Cymraes
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Post by Cymraes »

Such a shame we can't have a central registry of these type of guests to ensure that they can't book any one else's property. I certainly wouldn't want them in any of mine.

(And yes I know why we can't but at the moment the dice is loaded in favour of the guests)
Sam V
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Post by Sam V »

So, using Ben's response letter as a template, I sent them another email and letter by special delivery, adding the receipt to the file. I gave them the option to pay up or I'll be going to small claims if they don't reply by this weekend.

Jenster, Thinking about your comment regarding an additional clause for the deposit. Ours is held against damages, repairs, extra cleaning etc. The costs for the locksmith, window guy should have been paid at the time by the guests as in our terms it's as 'additional assistance/services... provided at your request outside those we normally provide should be paid before your departure' but they claimed they couldn't get any cash out. If they'd only locked themselves once, this would not have been an issue! I am going to review my T&Cs wording to make sure it's clear that any costs over the deposit will still be chargeable.
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amandajane
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Post by amandajane »

Hi Sam

My sympathies. What awful people - and idiots too.

The part about the state of your property is just nonsense, albeit upsetting. And as for the lock costing a few pounds on the Internet, you don't go into Costa and challenge the cost of a cup of coffee based on the price of coffee beans! Of course you should be able to pay your manager to go out in the middle of the night.

I too would stick to my guns and go through the small claims protocol, especially as they did it more than once. Hopefully they will agree to settle for at least some of the extra cost before it gets that far.
gardenboy
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Post by gardenboy »

Sam, so sorry to read this and having had the odd trashy person stay at my villa know exactly what it feels like. Are they teachers or did I misread, the guy cannot spell or string a sentance together properly.

As a sort of therapy I would look at the persons booking history with you and see how their behaviour could have been picked up. That way you can avoid this sort of person, it's just not worth the stress.

For me my trashy guests used the same expressions on their booking enquiries, that and the children's age profiles...avoid
newtimber
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Post by newtimber »

I don't think it's worth the stress of taking it to the small claims court when you might well not win your entire claim.

Good design would ensure that guests cannot lock themselves out of the house like they did - so the judge might say for example that the fault was 60% with the guests and 40% with you and allocate the repair costs accordingly.
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greenbarn
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Post by greenbarn »

newtimber wrote: Good design would ensure that guests cannot lock themselves out of the house like they did - so the judge might say for example that the fault was 60% with the guests and 40% with you and allocate the repair costs accordingly.
I don't really follow that. Good design would ensure that guests cannot lock themselves inside the house, for fire risk, but locking themselves out is human error (aka rank stupidity). It's not unreasonable to have a locking latch so the door is left secure on exit without the guests having to remember to lock it with a key. I wonder how many guests have locked themselves out by losing the key rather than leaving it indoors....? :oops:
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edinburgh
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Post by edinburgh »

How would you propose preventing themselves from locking themselves out?

Removing the doors?
Supergluing the keys into the locks?
Sam V
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Post by Sam V »

I submitted to the small claims yesterday.

I can't figure it out; locking yourself out the same way twice?! The patio doors have a door handle on the right hand door and the thumb lock on the left, the handle only locks the door from the inside by physically lifting it, once it's unlocked it won't lock until
You lift it from the inside, there are no handles on the outside, the doors don't slide freely at all, you have to physically push them to move, so from the outside you have to use the flat of your hand and your weight to purposefully close them! Why would you not instinctively open the door at the handle?
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Sam V
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Post by Sam V »

Today I've received a counter claim from the guests.

He is only admitting to €80/£66.66 for the call out. The expense I listed for this was €180 for the first call out (locksmith and handyman) and €60 for the second call out (just handyman). He has submitted a counter claim of £233.34 for the remaining balance of the security deposit and says he posted the key back but does not mention any proof of postage and denies no liability for the damage/repair expenses caused to regain entry.
TA lurkers walk among us; the LMH Walking Dead

dont mess in the affairs of cats for they are subtle and will p on your computer.

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Casscat
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Post by Casscat »

He's on a hiding to nothing. You'll win your claim and his only satisfaction will be in wasting everyone's time.
b_javea
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Post by b_javea »

Sam V wrote:Today I've received a counter claim from the guests.

He is only admitting to €80/£66.66 for the call out. The expense I listed for this was €180 for the first call out (locksmith and handyman) and €60 for the second call out (just handyman). He has submitted a counter claim of £233.34 for the remaining balance of the security deposit and says he posted the key back but does not mention any proof of postage and denies no liability for the damage/repair expenses caused to regain entry.
How is this progressing Sam, did you get a court date?

Just found this thread and reading with interest. Hope you get them!!
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