UK In/Out referendum

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Casscat
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Post by Casscat »

I'm going to ask a question Ian/Irene, because I am genuinely interested as it may help me understand your perspective. We know that you are in Spain - Galicia - at least as far as your rental is concerned, but where are you resident and what is your nationality? Are you British? If so have you dual nationality? Were you eligible to vote in the referendum?
Ecosse
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Post by Ecosse »

casasantoestevo wrote:
There are quite a few people we know who voted to leave, mainly as a protest to the Cameron regime,
But that was rather silly thing to do. He can be removed by elections. The question on the referendum paper was quite clear about that issue.
Exactly... hence the anger.
lorca
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Post by lorca »

Big Sis.. wrote:Ow gosh Patrick you must be a mind reader ...😳I was just doing exactly that .....patronising does begin with a p doesn't it?....
well let's give it a go...we've tried everything else ;)
If not now, when?
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Jimbo
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Post by Jimbo »

greenbarn wrote:It can be impossible for some people to understand the feelings of others, which makes it easy to dismiss those feelings as irrelevant. Once someone can recognise that it's impossible for them to understand, they might then recognise the pointless nature of their posts, even if they can't understand how deeply upsetting they can be to others.
GB, I think that you're right in this analysis. And I can recognise the utter pointless of my posts.

I've always been somebody who, when faced with a problem, has tried to kick the ball around the park with a bunch of others similarly afflicted. Hopefully, this will bring understanding and illumination of the other side of the argument. Doesn't always mean that I change my mind, but often I'll soften my stance. Sort of the grown-ups version of playground scrapping.

This thread, by contrast, has seemed like one of those interminable tennis matches where the ball goes ferociously back and forward, on and on, with no end in sight. However carefully the 'remainers' marshal their arguments, the 'leavers' send the ball fizzing back over the net with the same message. And the message is "We got our country back. Yes, we know that the referendum was a crock of shit. Yes, we know that the politicians lied and lied. Yes, we know that we'll not get much - if any - of the things we wanted - but hey baby - that's democracy, so suck it up and move on."

Well, not to me it isn't. And I will never change my mind about how we've all been sold down the river by a bunch of political bastards. However, mindful of GB's advice above, I'll withdraw from this thread. New balls please.

PS: Hi Big Sis! Hope all goes well?
Jim
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French Cricket
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Post by French Cricket »

Errrrr - GB's comment wasn't directed at you, Jim :wink:
lorca
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Post by lorca »

Of course your posts aren't pointless Jim

What is pointless however, is trying to continue to converse with someone (two?) who refuse/s to - or hasn't the intellectual capacity to - understand or care about what others are saying.

There comes a point when there is nothing to be gained by engaging with them further
If not now, when?
kg1
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Post by kg1 »

lorca wrote:Of course your posts aren't pointless Jim

What is pointless however, is trying to continue to converse with someone (two?) who refuse/s to - or hasn't the intellectual capacity to - understand or care about what others are saying.

There comes a point when there is nothing to be gained by engaging with them further
How rude!!!!!
FelicityA
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Post by FelicityA »

kyreniagirl wrote:
lorca wrote:Of course your posts aren't pointless Jim

What is pointless however, is trying to continue to converse with someone (two?) who refuse/s to - or hasn't the intellectual capacity to - understand or care about what others are saying.

There comes a point when there is nothing to be gained by engaging with them further
How rude!!!!!
+1. But this thread is full of rude people who simply keep stating their points over and over. I stated mine ( which were completely and utterly ignored vis a vis Ireland as it didn't fit the remainers' side to acknowledge the damage done there - there is a lot of that.) and got out from the arguments. As a matter of fact although I frequently have a different point of view from Casa on other matters I think they have shown a lot more 'intellectual capacity' than others on this thread and have posted urls illustrating arguments from both sides.

If my father in law were alive today (he was in North Africa and Italy during the war, joining the army at 17) he would be aghast at the tears, wailing and metaphorical wringing of hands ( I am presuming nobody in your immediate circle has died because of this) and say something like, "Get a sense of proportion. Be British, stiff upper lip, pull up your socks and get on with it. There are far worse things happening to other people."
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kevsboredagain
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Post by kevsboredagain »

FelicityA wrote: I stated mine ( which were completely and utterly ignored vis a vis Ireland as it didn't fit the remainers' side to acknowledge the damage done there - there is a lot of that.)
They were not ignored at all but trying to get more information from Leavers has proved completely fruitless. I myself even posted a set of questions to try and understand some of the arguments against the EU and it was answered with "good luck with your quest"

Rather than dispel some of the stereotypes the world now has of leavers, most of the responses here and elsewhere have only served to underline them. That I'm afraid, is now the image of Britain to the rest of the world.

I can understand the frustrations or Lorca as when they expressed concerns over the future they were accused of self pity.

I actually went in search of some facts about your Ireland argument and stumbled by chance on a Daily Express article. Reading the comments under the article, mostly made by Leave supporters made it all so clear. Debating this one is pointless. Jim said it eloquently and Lorca said it bluntly but both made the same statement.
Last edited by kevsboredagain on Sun Jul 17, 2016 11:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
JanB
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Post by JanB »

lorca wrote:Of course your posts aren't pointless Jim

What is pointless however, is trying to continue to converse with someone (two?) who refuse/s to - or hasn't the intellectual capacity to - understand or care about what others are saying.

There comes a point when there is nothing to be gained by engaging with them further
And it is precisely this rude attitude which divides people.

To question the intellectual capacity of someone just because they have an opposing view is downright arrogant and high handed.

It seems to me, some people need to reflect on their words - it is one thing to have an opposite view but to be so blatently insulting lowers your corner. Such a shame.

I thought Jim's conclusion to the thread he started was considered and level, giving an apt conclusion. A pity it could not have been left with his thoughts, rather than wading in with unjustified insults.
"It's a funny old world...." but full of the most amazing people. :-) Sense of humour essential!
Ecosse
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Post by Ecosse »

Calling someone unintelligent is uncalled for - I can understand how angry remainers are (I'm one of them, after all), but we're not going to win anyone over by being nasty!

Perhaps, if we are going to continue to comment on this thread, we can be a bit more considerate to each other? Maybe answer genuine questions from both sides rationally without emotions getting in the way, and not resort to cheap lines which, effectively come over as 'you're all thick' or 'you're all selfish', when in reality, neither is true.

Perhaps then, we can either learn the others' point if view, or at least to amicably agree to disagree.
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PW in Polemi
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Post by PW in Polemi »

I've dibbed into this thread from time to time, and got completely lost, so I sat and read the whole thing from start to finish, yesterday.

Several of you have made very good points, on both sides, that have made me realise nobody is completely right and nobody is completely wrong, whichever way they voted.

Although British, and with my home and livelihood in Europe for the past 8 years, I didn't have a vote. However, I somewhat instinctively felt that remain would be the best option - as someone or other said, "Better to be inside the tent pis*ing out, than outside trying to pis* in"! :lol: In other words, if you don't join the team and play the game, you stand very little chance of changing the rules to suit your aims.

But .... having read some of the well-researched and heart-felt arguments here on either side, it's not so simple and straightforward, is it? :shock: Although I'm sitting here, facing the possibility that our dreams for our future are now potentially in tatters (will we be allowed to continue living here, working here, using the healthcare system, owning more than one property, or do we have to sell up quickly at whatever price and move on to where????) I can see that we all have to let go of the lies and spin offered by both sides. What's done is done, we can't turn the clock back or put the spilt milk back into the bottle. We have to grit our teeth and get on with life as best we can, and maybe just maybe it will all work out OK in the end.

Maybe.
Fingers crossed.
Dogs have masters. Cats have slaves!
bessie
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Post by bessie »

+1
I too have not posted again ,due to the comments made .
I live and work in Britain, I have a right to vote which ever way I see fit and do not have to justify myself ,explain myself,give reasons to third parties.I have reasons for voting the way I did but I certainly don't attack the remain voters .
If you think I should start asking the views of how to vote by people who by work or choice decided to leave this country well you will have long wait.
After looking at all the facts ,yes I can read ,yes I run a business and no I would not put my head in an oven if an MP told me to do so.
We all have different views and those should be respected even if we don't agree .
Some of you may know each other well and can make comments but you do not know all of us to make such nasty remarks.
The world moves on ,terrible things are happening all over the world people loosing their lives be thankful you start another day alive.
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kevsboredagain
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Post by kevsboredagain »

-1

Perhaps some should read Jimbos original post and reflect on the point he made in the first place. Even if I'd supported leaving on economic or other grounds, I'd still feel a great sense of shame to be sharing a ride with such people, who, like it or not, represent a heck of a lot of people in the UK and are defining the image of Britain for our future.
bessie
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Post by bessie »

Yet again another comment ,I will never post on this forum again been called ( such peop!e) about says it all.
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