Listing sites permitting links to personal websites

[Giddy Goat]

Hullo all you LMHers, and hullo too to Paolo, to whom we owe so much, for creating this amazing platform. What a star.

I hope you're all thriving, and having a bumper season, with perfect punters in your properties! Sadly, we decided to sell our much loved French holiday home towards the end of 2014, hence my silence.

I recall the huge lump in my throat as we drove away for the last time, and we miss the dear old place to this day. It meant, however, that we could buy a bigger home here in the UK, in which we're very happy, but I also miss LMH: the friendship, the sharing of knowledge ... I guess I could have continued to engage, but felt that I had to make a clean break.

In the last few days however, I have been helping a friend from our new village to get her head around the possibility of buying a holiday cottage locally. Needless to say, I've told her about LMH!! In the course of briefing her, I happened to revisit Owners Direct, Holiday Lettings and VRBO, and was taken aback as it seemed that these sites no longer allow subscribers to include their property URLs on their advertisements? I'm hoping not, and that you'll tell me I need new specs! Thx, GG

[AndrewH]

Hello again Giddy Goat, after a long absence. No, I don't think you will be needing a trip to Specsavers. I can only speak about the likes of HomeAway, Owners Direct and VRBO, all of which are now in the control of Expedia. In consequence there have been major changes in how these sites are run since your departure from the self-catering scene in 2014.

Regarding the inclusion of a link to private websites, this is a topic which is getting an airing on LMH at the present moment ( viewtopic.php?t=26756&start=120 ). So far as I can see, if you pay an annual subscription for your advertisement then you are able to include a link, although it is not instantly visible on the first page, but is hidden away somewhere. On the other hand, if you go down the pay per booking route, then the ability to communicate with the guest during the booking process is cut to the barest minimum and there is no chance of showing a private website link on the ad.

Expedia's main intention is to take away as much control as they can from their owners/customers. In every way they can think of they want to run your business for you. They now have a card payments gateway through which the guest can pay, and in most cases has to pay. Payments are then transferred from there to owners' bank accounts at some point, in many cases after the guest has arrived.

The biggest change, however, is that a booking fee (called a 'service fee') is charged to guests on every booking through any of these sites. It is around 8% of the rent and applies to subscription listings as much as commission listings. Many subscription owners are holding out successfully against this, but I think it will be enforced on owners at next renewal if they want to renew, and it seems that many don't.

[PW in Polemi]

The biggest change, however, is that a booking fee (called a 'service fee') is charged to guests on every booking through any of these sites. It is around 8% of the rent and applies to subscription listings as much as commission listings. Many subscription owners are holding out successfully against this, but I think it will be enforced on owners at next renewal if they want to renew, and it seems that many don't.

HA/OD do not make it obvious to guests that the TSF (Traveller Service Fee) is charged by HA/OD and not by the owner. When a guest makes an on-line enquiry, the amount quoted for the desired period is the total of the owner's set price PLUS the fee of, as AndrewH says, about 8% plus VAT making it a smidge under 10%. So if the enquirer is savvy, they will click on the "View All Prices" button and see that the price for their dates is actually lower - and believe the owner is trying to rip them off.

At the moment, if you are on subscription only, with no on-line booking and with no on-line payments, you can have a link to your website and carefully mention the lack of TSF fee. HA/OD are selling it as an insurance (they don't use that actual word) but frankly, any good travel insurance would cover what they are offering, and if you read their T&Cs, in order to claim under their TSF, you have to pretty much jump through hoops and provide proof that you cannot claim under any other method (credit card, holiday insurance, whatever).

HA/OD are trying very hard to sell this fee (Totally Superfluous Fee) to owners by sneakily putting them onto on-line booking (it took us 3 or 4 early morning phone calls, a couple of emails and 3 or 4 days in order to get the quoting set correctly and on-line booking which they had erroneously enabled, disabled), and by trying to frighten them with "you'll be low down the rankings if you don't have OLB and OLP".

Our HA/OD renewal is up in February - and we are still unsure whether to renew or not. The problem is, HA/OD have a very wide exposure to potential guests, and bring us most of our bookings .... at the moment, anyway.

[Hells Bells]

GG welcome back. There's an awful lot of things altered with the major listing sites since you sold your home.

[Nigel Goodwin]

deleted.

[French Cricket]

Just really dipping in here to say hello to you, GG - it's good to see you back here!

And yes, as the others have said, the listing site world has emigrated to a whole other universe in the short time since you left the business behind I would never now recommend to a new owner that they tie themselves up with HA, OD, TA, HL or any of that ilk. If you have any small local niche sites, that might be a far better way for them to go.

[Jimbo]

GG, welcome back to LMH - the Hotel California of internet forums!

A lot has indeed changed since you and I sold our gites in 2014 and I'm sure the active owners on here wil fill you in. I couldn't have tolerated a listing site coming between me and prospective guests - but that's just me (in the same way that I hated PR companies coming between me and the client on photo jobs).

Many owners, however, have rolled with the punches or have found new ways to promote their rental businesses and have continued to be successful. Things change and you either adapt or you do something else.

Good luck to your friend with her cottage. With LMH's invaluable help and your experienced hand on the tiller, l'm sure that it will be a success!

[Nemo]

Hello GG lovely to hear from you again. Yes the major listing sites have transformed the world of holiday rentals, so it's definitely not a case of sitting back and answering enquiries as they roll in after you've paid for your subscription. If she's able to embrace social media, then I would 100% recommend that as worth the time and effort involved in learning how to use them. Perhaps start with a couple of platforms and see how she fares. Facebook or twitter are good, but there's instagram, pinterest, Google+ (good for seo), blogging etc. You've got to be creative nowadays.

[declanja]

Welcome back GG. As the others have said we all are running faster now and still losing ground! If your friend's property has a USP then they have a chance of making it independently. If not, its much more difficult. It is difficult to get noticed on Google now with the big advertising budgets of the giants unless you have a unique product.

[paolo]

Just to say Hi Jane, hope you are doing well, and with your 9000 posts, all written with kindness and attentiveness, we all owe you a great deal.

[Giddy Goat]

Hullo team - and hullo Paolo; it was lovely to check in on the Mac this morning and see your post. A cyberhug is coming your way! The generous feedback I've had from you all on this thread has been extremely helpful, and you've given us lots and lots of good stuff to ponder. I feel very angry at the way owners are being exploited by the major listing sites: how grasping they've become. I will definitely suggest to my friend that we start out with a local one - and with all the hints and tips LMH offers in terms of (e.g.) SEO, we will show that cynical lot we don't need their business!!! I promise to cycle past and give you an update once she's up and running. A lovely reason to reconnect .... Meanwhile, thank you massively everyone, and continued success with your rentals. XXXX.

[KathyG]

Hello Jane, we miss you here!

I'm with HA/OD still and yes they keep moving the location of the link to owner's website. I tell 'traveller's' where to find it in my property description but often have to update it as they move it regularly.

[Giddy Goat]

The Creeps!! I didn't realise they'd stooped as low as that! Someone got a raise no doubt when s/he came up with the idea. Wish we could frog-march them out of existence!

Great to see you Kathy.

[la vache!]

Hi GG
Its lovely to see that you have dipped your hooves into the forum again! I was reminiscing on the advice you gave me about which listing site was the best when I joined the forum 11 years ago. It brought you (and many others on here) most of their bookings. I took your advice and signed up, and Owners Direct did indeed bring me most of my bookings for several years.

How times have changed

[Giddy Goat]

Hi LV - great to hear from you too. I came all over nostalgic, and wish we still had a holiday home: as much for sharing them with clients as going there and enjoying getting away from it all ourselves, as, of course, for having a bona fide reason for being here! Hope all is well, and that your season is still chugging along nicely. XX