A question about Electric Cars

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Annew
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A question about Electric Cars

Post by Annew »

I've had a few guests this year with electric cars and I have no provision in my fire risk assessment for this (ie, recharging) and do not provide an outdoor socket.

How does anyone else deal with this?
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Joanna
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Post by Joanna »

We're off site so we wouldn't know if anyone brought an electric or hybrid car. I now have a disturbing image of guests running an extension lead through an open downstairs window to an indoors socket! Maybe a fire issue but also a security one. Does anyone know if that's what people are likely to do?
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Annew
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Post by Annew »

Joanna wrote:We're off site so we wouldn't know if anyone brought an electric or hybrid car. I now have a disturbing image of guests running an extension lead through an open downstairs window to an indoors socket! Maybe a fire issue but also a security one. Does anyone know if that's what people are likely to do?
That's exactly the problem - I've had two guests just plug into a socket with their own cable through open windows :shock:
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Electric Cars

Post by AndrewH »

Nuthatch
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Post by Nuthatch »

We have an electric car and on the few occasions we've stayed at a hotel/B&B with it we've been offered the extension reel through a window option (we carry an extension lead and I would expect most electric car owners would do so).

From a cost perspective our car takes up to 20 kWh to charge, so at maybe 15p per unit of electricity that works out at about £3 per full charge. We always offer to pay the extra for our electricity but so far no-one has taken us up on the offer (we usually leave it in the room for the cleaning staff instead).

We have 2 charging points at our holiday let, but to date no-one has actually used them (apart from us!)

We also wouldn't dream of turning up somewhere to stay without first checking that we would be able to charge the car (and the owner,manager would be happy for us to do so).

Very happy to answer any questions about electric cars (our BMW i3 is wonderful, and absolutely brilliant to drive!)
Annew
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Re: Electric Cars

Post by Annew »

AndrewH wrote:There were discussions about this last May:

viewtopic.php?t=26150&highlight=electric+cars

viewtopic.php?t=26112&highlight=hybrid+cars
Thanks Andrew I have seen those threads.

I'm not worried about the electricity - we wouldn't ask our guests not to use other electrical items (would we??!!)

My insurers have said that a window left open with a cable through it would possibly invalidate any burglary insurance claims.

However, what bothers me is any potential fire risk of guests turning up with an un PAT tested extension cable. After our fire caused by guests last year I revisit my Fire Risk Assessment regularly.

Maybe we'll just install an outdoor socket.
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CSE
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Post by CSE »

Several points here:
One; what do PAT tests cover?
I believe there are no written rules as to what equipment. So if someone else brings along electrical equipment how can you be expected to cover for it? It is more of a trip hazard than an electrical problem.
Providing an inside or outside connection to the supply in your property can not overcome either of these issues if the guest chooses themselves to ignore them.
Two; Why do you allow guests to fill up their cars? Should you not be doing this with combustion engines too? :wink:
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Post by Annew »

casasantoestevo wrote:Several points here:
One; what do PAT tests cover?
I believe there are no written rules as to what equipment. So if someone else brings along electrical equipment how can you be expected to cover for it? It is more of a trip hazard than an electrical problem.
Providing an inside or outside connection to the supply in your property can not overcome either of these issues if the guest chooses themselves to ignore them.
Two; Why do you allow guests to fill up their cars? Should you not be doing this with combustion engines too? :wink:
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Post by newtimber »

casasantoestevo wrote: Two; Why do you allow guests to fill up their cars? Should you not be doing this with combustion engines too? :wink:
I think it may well be in the future as more and more cars become electric that it will be considered a normal thing to do - you charge your electric car up every night so it's ready for the next day's travelling and don't think anything of it. Just like they might boil some water and fill a flask to take away with them or use your water to wash the car windscreen.
As ever it depends how much it actually costs to charge the car - but it's a fraction of the cost of filling your car with petrol and probably as more cars become electric, you'll just increase the cost of the rental a little to cover it.
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Post by e-richard »

newtimber wrote:I think it may well be in the future as more and more cars become electric that it will be considered a normal thing to do.
Totally agree. Remember when we used to charge for WiFi ?
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Re: Electric Cars

Post by greenbarn »

Annew wrote:
what bothers me is any potential fire risk of guests turning up with an un PAT tested extension cable. After our fire caused by guests last year I revisit my Fire Risk Assessment regularly.

Maybe we'll just install an outdoor socket.
I may be over-thinking this, but....

Setting aside the issue of the state of the extension lead, which is beyond your control or responsibility, here's a nasty thought that's occurred to me - and this has a lot of maybes implied:

Suppose you allow your guests to plug their extension lead into your indoor mains socket, and you know they are intending to run it outside; you've accepted a degree of responsibility. If the lead is being used outside, does this mean that the ring it's plugged into - your socket - must have a suitable fast-acting safety breaker just for that ring? That may be the case, I'm not sure, and it may also be the case that your wiring has an appropriate safety cut out with push-test on that ring, but it may not.

Now the guests have trailed the lead across the ground to their car, and presumably plugged their charger in; it's not impossible that the extension socket gets rained on, or dripped on, or that the lead gets cut/damaged/bitten - you can see where this thought is heading. Is the socket they've used for their extension lead fit for the purpose of preventing an electric shock under those conditions?
Okay - it's a "what if?" worst case scenario - which is the start point for a risk assessment. But my feeling is that I'd make it clear that guests must not plug extension leads for outdoor use into the house sockets, and I'd have a fully protected (with test button) outside socket installed for the purpose.
But as I say - I may be overthinking it (or not).

As these cars become more widespread, maybe we need to be thinking about installing coin-operated dedicated charging points - if such things are available?
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Post by CSE »

I think it may well be in the future as more and more cars become electric that it will be considered a normal thing to do
Yes in the future, maybe.
but these things have a long, long way to go.
http://www.nextgreencar.com/electric-cars/statistics/
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-35312562 ( can find official figs but the PDF will not download)
WIFI and kettles are very very different to filling up a car for a free days ride.
A lot on LMH still need to have the WIFI access limited because of guests abusing usage. The other issue is some complain about the amount you are charged for advertising on portals. That but be your most important outlay.

How can advertising costs not be accepted, but the free use of a car is?

Another question is, when do you put a stop to these issues, which are eating away at your turnover/profit?
Never try to out-stubborn your guests.
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Post by e-richard »

casasantoestevo wrote:Another question is, when do you put a stop to these issues, which are eating away at your turnover/profit?
The answer is to stop thinking of them as eating away at profit, but as part of the business.

You don't not charge for laundry, water, property rates, advertising, your time, your computer, etc etc etc?

These are just the costs of doing business and as the business changes so the cost structures AND THE PRICING will change over time.

Outward thinking rather than inward thinking:

Remember is customers that make paydays possible :)
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Post by Nuthatch »

One thing to consider is that (at the moment) people who have electric cars tend to be the sort who are heavily into conserving the environment and would actively switch off lights/heating/aircon etc and not waste resources. Compared with a family who might leave everything switched on all day and have the tumble-dryer going day and night, an electric car charge could well be a significantly lower cost to the business.
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Post by Martha »

Fascinating topic, we do actually have an outdoor socket close to the car parking area. I will do a bit of research.

If I was in an area where electric cars were widely used already (which this, sadly, isn't), I'd absolutely be looking to get an outdoor socket installed and making a big noise about it in advertising. You could either choose to factor the cost in or make a small additional charge (ha!) to cover the cost, spending on your market.
I can't believe anyone enjoys the rigmarole with the extension cord, owner or guest. It would be a great USP!
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