Heat Pump Dryer

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AngloDutch
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Heat Pump Dryer

Post by AngloDutch »

Our Miele vented dryer finally broke down this year (a venting dryer is the one where hot humid air is blown out of the dryer through a venting duct at the back). We had this dryer outside in a shed for guests to use. Someone gave it to us second-hand, but as it was Miele it worked faithfully these last 11 years even though it was getting on a bit.

We also have a condenser dryer (the dryer with the plastic drawer for water containment or hose at the back to expel the water), this also located in a nearby shed which we don't let the guests use, as we were worried what could happen during the winter in case the water in it freezes when the temperature falls.

We had a good look at what kinds of dryers are available nowadays, and it seems that there are very few vented dryers being made (for sale here anyway!) Maybe that has to do with them being very energy inefficient.

It seems that apart from a condenser dryer (which we don't want because of the problems if the temperature falls below zero as mentioned above), you have the choice of a heat pump dryer or a sensor dryer.

We decided on a heat pump dryer as it is much more energy efficient if a little bit more expensive than the average condenser dryer.

We had it delivered last week, but when we unpacked it, we were shocked to see that it had the containment drawer, so it looks like we have bought a kind of condenser dryer after all. :shock:

It seems that we were confused by reading that after the air is cooled, it is reheated and recycled inside, so had an idea that this was a new kind of vented dryer (with the hot air being blown out the back).

Looks like we have bought a machine that it again not suited to being used outside. It was too much of a problem to send it back to the store at the other end of the country (bought online), and there is unfortunately no room for it in the accommodation unless we do some serious alterations in the kitchen (where we could possible put the dishwasher which is currently next to the washing machine in the utility room, making room for the dryer there in its place).

The problem is that we usually get bookings for the 2 weeks around Christmas and New Year and the odd booking when it can be bitterly cold here in January and February, with temperatures often well below zero.

Obviously, we can't expect a group of 10 people to have to try and dry everything inside on a clothes rack or on the radiators :shock: , so were wondering how others deal with the problem of having dryers in sheds in freezing conditions?

We were gobsmacked when the drawer popped open to reveal that it worked on the same 'condenser dryer' procedure after all. This one (Candy - an Italian make) has dials with symbols/English text which the old Miele did not have. We lost count of how often we had to try and explain to a poor American guest what all the Dutch writing meant around the Miele dials! Candy is just about the only make of dryer here that does not have everything written in Dutch on the front panel (we have 2 Panasonic washing machines as well because everything is in English). Some of our international guests have got into a right panic because they couldn't understand how to operate a dryer.

Actually, last year some American guests that we hadn't seen in nearly 10 years just turned up on our doorstep on a Sunday morning asking for our help. 'What happened? Have you had an accident? Been victim of a crime?', we asked. 'No, they said, something just as bad. We can't dry our clothes and we are due to fly home tomorrow. We have taken photos of the front panel of the dryer. Can you translate for us? We cannot contact the owner to ask for assistance....' They had driven from the Frisian coastline to us, so not exactly close by. They were very relieved when we wrote everything down for them in English (I did not ask them why they didn't use Google translate, or ask someone locally to translate the front panel for them, some people do of course get in a complete panic when they are abroad.... :wink:)

So, any suggestions? Anti-freeze in the collection drawer? Heat the shed? ...... :?
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Post by Hells Bells »

Can you not just request that the drawer is emptied of water after each use? If the drawer is at the top left like my Bosch one, it is easy enough to empty each time. My old Creda one was a pain as it was at the bottom underneath the dryer door.
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Post by Bunny »

I have a heat pump dryer with a collection vat in the door. It's really obvious and easy to empty after each use. However, the machine has the option to be plumbed in/drained, negating the need for the water collection vat. Are you sure your dryer cannot be plumbed to a waste drain?
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Post by greenbarn »

Bunny wrote: However, the machine has the option to be plumbed in/drained, negating the need for the water collection vat. Are you sure your dryer cannot be plumbed to a waste drain?
That was my thought. The dryers we have are condenser type but installed so that the water is discharged through a small pipe rather than collected. You might then have the problem of the pipe freezing, which could probably be solved with a trace heating element wrapped around it, which is cheap enough to run.
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Post by AngloDutch »

HelenB wrote:Can you not just request that the drawer is emptied of water after each use? If the drawer is at the top left like my Bosch one, it is easy enough to empty each time. My old Creda one was a pain as it was at the bottom underneath the dryer door.
The heat pump dryer is much slower in drying than a vented dryer. It seems to need around 3 hours to dry towels properly. What we're concerned about is that during the time it takes to do this (two cycles), water could freeze in either the drawer, in the hose (we have not connected the hose yet as, unlike our Bosch standard condenser dryer in the other shed, connecting the hose involves unscrewing the back plate and grabbing a nozzle with a pair of pliers which we haven't attempted as yet) or water freezing inside the appliance itself.

Also, knowing guests like we all do :lol: some would no doubt empty the container but we're sure that we would have to police it as well, otherwise we will have guests knocking on our door saying that the dryer doesn't work (because of course the container is full :roll: )
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AngloDutch
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Post by AngloDutch »

Bunny wrote:I have a heat pump dryer with a collection vat in the door. It's really obvious and easy to empty after each use. However, the machine has the option to be plumbed in/drained, negating the need for the water collection vat. Are you sure your dryer cannot be plumbed to a waste drain?
We don't have any drainage in the sheds unfortunately, Bunny. With our Bosch condenser dryer we have just put the hose into a bucket. We always stop using the condenser dryer as soon as we get the first freeze. Problem is of course that the water could freeze in the hose or somewhere in the appliance. Can imagine the motor burning out if we tried to operate it with frozen water inside it and no doubt our guarantee would be voided once Candy found out that we had been operating it in sub-zero temperatures.
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Post by Hells Bells »

If the machine is still drying the clothes, I doubt very much whether the water would freeze, as the machine would surely be hot.
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Post by Hells Bells »

and mine has a light that comes on to tell you when filters need cleaning and water tank needs emptying.
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AngloDutch
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Post by AngloDutch »

greenbarn wrote:
Bunny wrote: However, the machine has the option to be plumbed in/drained, negating the need for the water collection vat. Are you sure your dryer cannot be plumbed to a waste drain?
That was my thought. The dryers we have are condenser type but installed so that the water is discharged through a small pipe rather than collected. You might then have the problem of the pipe freezing, which could probably be solved with a trace heating element wrapped around it, which is cheap enough to run.
greenbarn, thank you! That seems like a really good idea. Any idea though whether water remains inside the appliance, that could freeze and cause a problem? It is amazing how little information there is online about running a condenser-type dryer during low temperatures...
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Post by AngloDutch »

HelenB wrote:If the machine is still drying the clothes, I doubt very much whether the water would freeze, as the machine would surely be hot.
Helen, thanks. We noticed that the drawer and water collected in it remains quite cold, so believe that this could quite easily freeze. It's a pity that the manufacturers don't heat the drawer to keep the water warm, but suppose that once the machine has finished its cycle, the water there would gradually freeze anyway. greenbarn's trace heating element sounds the solution, but still not sure about water left over in the appliance freezing.
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greenbarn
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Post by greenbarn »

AngloDutch wrote: Any idea though whether water remains inside the appliance, that could freeze and cause a problem? It is amazing how little information there is online about running a condenser-type dryer during low temperatures...
Good point - and I’ve no idea; I’d guess that it’s likely that there’s some water left in the machine somewhere.

I’m off to search out a forum run by people in the trade where it might be worth asking the question.
I’ll be back.... 8)

Edit - quicker than I thought, I obviously haven’t destroyed enough brain cells lately.
Here’s the link: http://www.ukwhitegoods.co.uk/forumsphpbb3/
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AngloDutch
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Post by AngloDutch »

greenbarn wrote:
AngloDutch wrote: Any idea though whether water remains inside the appliance, that could freeze and cause a problem? It is amazing how little information there is online about running a condenser-type dryer during low temperatures...
Good point - and I’ve no idea; I’d guess that it’s likely that there’s some water left in the machine somewhere.

I’m off to search out a forum run by people in the trade where it might be worth asking the question.
I’ll be back.... 8)

Edit - quicker than I thought, I obviously haven’t destroyed enough brain cells lately.
Here’s the link: http://www.ukwhitegoods.co.uk/forumsphpbb3/
Thanks, greenbarn, we'll take a look....
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Post by Bunny »

My understanding is that heat pump dryers shouldn't be operated in freezing temperatures anyway. They are certainly far less efficient when the outside air temperature is cold. Ours is in a brick outhouse too, but I do have a greenhouse heater in there on a thermostat to stop it freezing. They don't discharge enough water to need it to go into a drain. I would have thought the pipe could be discharged onto the ground away from the building.
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Post by AngloDutch »

Bunny wrote:My understanding is that heat pump dryers shouldn't be operated in freezing temperatures anyway. They are certainly far less efficient when the outside air temperature is cold. Ours is in a brick outhouse too, but I do have a greenhouse heater in there on a thermostat to stop it freezing. They don't discharge enough water to need it to go into a drain. I would have thought the pipe could be discharged onto the ground away from the building.
Thanks again, Bunny, that is probably why we are having to do 2 cycles to get the clothes dry. We didn't have these problems with the old vented dryer. It could be used in all temperatures and was very fast in drying everything. The vented dryers are though very expensive to run, so at least we hope to see a reduction in our huge energy bills we have here!
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Post by Bunny »

AngloDutch wrote:
Bunny wrote:My understanding is that heat pump dryers shouldn't be operated in freezing temperatures anyway. They are certainly far less efficient when the outside air temperature is cold. Ours is in a brick outhouse too, but I do have a greenhouse heater in there on a thermostat to stop it freezing. They don't discharge enough water to need it to go into a drain. I would have thought the pipe could be discharged onto the ground away from the building.
Thanks again, Bunny, that is probably why we are having to do 2 cycles to get the clothes dry. We didn't have these problems with the old vented dryer. It could be used in all temperatures and was very fast in drying everything. The vented dryers are though very expensive to run, so at least we hope to see a reduction in our huge energy bills we have here!
There's no doubt they take much longer to dry. Mine takes about 2 1/2 hours per cycle but they always come out dry. I've never had to re-run it. It is definitely much cheaper to run than my old standard hot air dryer.
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