Employee and how to pay them

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Donkeybee
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Employee and how to pay them

Post by Donkeybee »

I wonder if anyone could help with some advice.
We rent a gite out in the Pas de Calais region with little success at the moment. We only rent to English clients at the moment, but have a lady help us with changeover days. She wants to declare her earnings but not sure what we have to do. Can anyone please point us in the right direction.
God my french is bad
sylvainbg
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Post by sylvainbg »

Cheque something call:

"Cheque emploi service"
Donkeybee
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Post by Donkeybee »

Thank you but find this site a little confusing do you have more info.
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Hells Bells
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Post by Hells Bells »

Does the lady do similar work for others, or is she only working for you? I think Cheque emploi only applies to a domestic cleaner cleaning in your own home, not one working in your gite.
Donkeybee
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Post by Donkeybee »

Yes she will be doing similar work for another gite owner this coming year, but obviously the work will only be when we have guests and not a regular income.
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Hells Bells
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Post by Hells Bells »

Probably better for her to be a small business then. But I am no expert on this at all, she needs proper advice. I don't think you would need to employ her though if she works for others.
Ecosse
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Post by Ecosse »

It's a nightmare employing someone in France, and can prove very expensive. Much better if your cleaner registers as an auto-entrepreneur and then all she does is invoice you for the work that she does for you. She is then responsible for her tax and, more importantly, her social security payments. It also means that should you no longer require her services (e.g. you sell, or the likes), you don't have organise for the next owners to take her on, or pay her compensation for loss of earnings in accordance with the French law.

Our cleaner is an auto-entrepreneur and it's working out brilliantly for both of us.
GillianF
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Post by GillianF »

My thoughts are the same as Ecosse above.

Employing someone is an expensive nightmare and for gite cleaning you just don't want to go there.

The last time we employed a cleaner for a Summer season and to do the laundry she was registered herself and so took care of it all and just invoiced us. We employed a local chap to help with pre-season gardening, maintenance and outside work and he was registered under the Cheque Emploi Service scheme. Again, he was responsible for registering himself and we paid him and made a small payment to the CESU scheme.
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oasiscouple
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Post by oasiscouple »

GillianF wrote: Employing someone is an expensive nightmare and for gite cleaning you just don't want to go there.
This is not true. I use the system for employing someone to prune my many of metres of hedges, gardening, and gite cleaning. It is easy once you have registered yourself into the system. You declare the amount paid and hours worked on line and if you pay tax in France, it gives you a tax reduction so you get part of the money back.
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oasiscouple
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Post by oasiscouple »

And I forgot to say that the work doesn't have to be regular. I have 3 or 4 people I employ from time to time in this way and it suits them as they don't have the hassle and cost of registering as an auto entrepreneur. Also as it gives me a tax reduction, for me it is a win win situation.
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GillianF
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Post by GillianF »

I'd be interested to know more about how this works. What do you register yourself as and what sort of contract do you use to employ them?
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oasiscouple
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Post by oasiscouple »

GillianF wrote:I'd be interested to know more about how this works. What do you register yourself as and what sort of contract do you use to employ them?
You go to their site http://www.cesu.urssaf.fr where you will find two parts, employer and employee. You register yourself in the employer section giving your name, address, email address, and bank détails etc. The bank détails are so that when you employ someone and declare what you pay them, about 2 months later they debit you the social charges. I pay 12€ an hour to a cleaner and 14€ per hour a gardener (as he provides his own equipment, fuel etc) and the social charges adds about 60% to what you have paid (or about 30% if you are over 70 years old). I don't register myself as anyone - just an employer.

When you employ someone, you give their name, address, date of birth and social security number on line and then just register what you pay and the number of hours. There is no contract, you don't have to say what they do - they are just an employee. As you pay the social charges, what you pay them is what they keep - they have no further charges to pay.

When the time comes to fill in your annual tax declaration, you download an annual statement from CESU which shows what you have paid the employees and what social charges you paid and this goes as a charge against your declared income and reduces your tax liability.
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GillianF
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Post by GillianF »

Thank you. A very clear and concise explanation which might be helpful to quite a few on here who have to 'employ' people to help them.
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Bassman
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Post by Bassman »

GillianF wrote:Thank you. A very clear and concise explanation which might be helpful to quite a few on here who have to 'employ' people to help them.
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Circé
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Post by Circé »

Some warnings/info :
If you employ someone on CESU on a very regular basis, e.g. as your weekly or fortnightly cleaner, they are entitled to holiday pay and to redundancy money if you stop employing them. In such cases you are regarded as their employer and they have employee rights.

CESU is for domestic work only, in people's own homes. You cannot use CESU legally to employ someone in effect on income-earning work i.e. cleaning your gites.
"CESU est un dispositif simplifié utilisé par les particuliers employeurs pour déclarer facilement les salariés employés à leur domicile pour des activités de services à la personne".
Don't shoot the messenger, and yes I know folk ignore this rule but best to be aware of it, innit?
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