Bad Guests!

From the moment they step through the door your bookings become guests, and their experiences determine whether they ever come back.
sas401
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Bad Guests!

Post by sas401 »

Had a family turn up in the dark monday night. On the booking form it was for two adults and two children, the maximum that we can take except a baby in a travel cot.
Two days later I happened to see them come back to the cottage and discovered they have an additional child aged approx 6-7 years old. I didnt say anything as I am too soft and didnt want to ruin their holiday by asking them to leave.
They asked for more wood which we charge £5 per basket for. They did not pay for the first one so when they asked for a second basket a day later my husband reminded them that it was at extra cost and she agreed she still wanted it but still no payment forthcoming.
On checkout they convieniently hadnt got any money to give us for the wood and she promised to sort out when she got home. I went into the cottage to find the place was in such a mess. So much additional cleaning, plastic clips missing off windows, curtain poles down, stains on both single beds, etc etc. A total nightmare of a job especially as a changeover and also discovered one sheet missing.

Have e mailed asking for an extra payment of £30, £10 for the wood, £10 for sheet and £10 for extra cleaning) which I thought was reasonable however had a nasty e mail back saying she had had a terrible holiday and it was basically all out fault (????!!!!) and no mention of the additional guest or any offer of payment.

Presumably you have all had problems like this but how have you sorted it out and got the money off them?
I have been letting for years but seems to be in the last year we are either attracting the wrong clientele or is it just that people are out there to just rip you off??!! Any advice most welcome
Fleur
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Damage

Post by Fleur »

If you take a damage deposit then take the money from that.
Fleur
COYS
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Post by COYS »

Hate to say it, but you should have fronted up straight away about the extra guest, because by not doing so you appear to be easily manipulated & this has proven to be the case with these guests. If you have a guest limit, stick to it. I'm certain your insurers wouldn't be quite so flexible about persona non grata.

Do you not hold a security deposit from which the additional costs can be (quite reasonably) deducted?
If not, I'd suggest you do from now on - at the very least it focuses the mind & in this case could have been used for purpose.

I don't think there is a "wrong clientele" as such, we've all had a pain in the butt at some stage. You could try sending a formal email with an itemised invoice attached but your recourse is s bit limited for 30 quid.

Maybe toughen up that soft spot a little? And take a security deposit?
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e-richard
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Re: Bad Guests!

Post by e-richard »

My advice is to do your best to totally forget about these guests. You'll never see any money from them and fretting and swearing will not improve your chances, but just make you miserable.

If there is anything to learn, then perhaps start taking a refundable security deposit. But think about this:

How many guests you had over the years who have had a wonderful time, left your property clean and tidy and not broken anything. Think of the hassle of returning 100% of the deposit to ALL of these guests over the years? Would all of that hassle be worth £30 from the very rare guests like you have just encountered?
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AndrewH
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Post by AndrewH »

Lots of wise words here, and those guests were out and out crooks. I think pursuing them for £30 might be a waste of time.
GillianF
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Post by GillianF »

If you don't take a security or damages deposit then you may well attract what you refer to as the wrong clientele because you will attract those who know their behaviour would cost them extra money.

These guests saw your soft spot and exploited it - again, human nature in some people.

It probably isn't worth pursuing these guests for the money but you could send an e-mail saying how sorry you were they had a terrible holiday, ask them to outline the issues and why they didn't approach you at the time. It won't change anything but might make you feel better.

However, I disagree with e-richard about the 'hassle' of taking damages deposits and returning them. We've been doing it for 25 years and I don't find it a hassle at all. It's just part of the administration of dealing with bookings and I believe it has focussed the minds of guests to not cause damage, leave a mess and, where they have, I have had the safety net of being able to make a reasonable charge to put things right without the 'hassle' the original poster is now experiencing.
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joddle
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Post by joddle »

I always take a deposit - its a two way insurance - one if they cancel late at least if you can't get another booking you have something - and two if there is damage then you are already part covered. I make it very clear in my booking information that is how the deposit will work and in all the time we have been running I have never not returned the deposit in full.

However I do notice that people are generally very honest and do say when something gets broken or damaged - usually very minor and are things which I put down to wear and tear anyway. That's not to say I don't sometimes get a problem with guests - one lot did steal all the batteries from the remote controls and another the extension cables which we leave so people can plug in their phones etc - in my view not worth making a fuss about. If there was any serious damage though I would not hesitate to retain all or part of the deposit - much easier than trying to get blood out of a stone!.
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PW in Polemi
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Post by PW in Polemi »

GillianF wrote:If you don't take a security or damages deposit then you may well attract what you refer to as the wrong clientele because you will attract those who know their behaviour would cost them extra money.

These guests saw your soft spot and exploited it - again, human nature in some people.

It probably isn't worth pursuing these guests for the money but you could send an e-mail saying how sorry you were they had a terrible holiday, ask them to outline the issues and why they didn't approach you at the time. It won't change anything but might make you feel better.

However, I disagree with e-richard about the 'hassle' of taking damages deposits and returning them. We've been doing it for 25 years and I don't find it a hassle at all. It's just part of the administration of dealing with bookings and I believe it has focussed the minds of guests to not cause damage, leave a mess and, where they have, I have had the safety net of being able to make a reasonable charge to put things right without the 'hassle' the original poster is now experiencing.
+1
The damages deposit acts as a deterrent against careless behaviour and is a disincentive to book for those who know they are likely to behave irresponsibly in/with your property.
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Afrique
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Post by Afrique »

I had the same sort of thing yesterday. I checked in a family of three, Mum Dad and small child. When I went to check them out yesterday I knocked on the door and three strange adults answered the door. I was a little (really) shocked and said, 'excuse me but who are you'? They said they were leaving now, and they were friends of the family who had stayed, but that had left already! I asked them for the keys, and they told me the person who had dropped the family off at the airport, would bring them to me later on. I sent a message to the original family asking, who these people were, and where my keys were, they replied, 'Oh they were just friends came to say goodbye (with three large suitcases) and clean the apartment for you'. When the 'person' returned with the keys, hours later she was very forthcoming in telling me that all 7 had stayed and had slept on the couch and floor etc and she knew there would be trouble! I am working out my plan of action but also realise there is not a lot I can do now they have gone. I also had extra cleaning as the 'strangers' left a mess and I feel angry,disappointed,tricked and generally p#$%ed off.Sorry to hijack your post with 7 people :-)
COYS
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Post by COYS »

IMO you have every right tobe pi**ed off Afrique, I think you've shown remarkable restraint.
You can't change it now, but per original post, at least if you were holding a security deposit .......
Who knows, maybe it would also deter freeloading sofa surfers?
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zebedee
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Post by zebedee »

Hello SAS401,
I am really sorry for you. I agree it may not be worthwhile doing anything more now as the cost is so low (although I know it is the principle that hurts more sometimes!)

Hopefully this will never happen again, but if you ever need to ask for any payment after a guest has left, I would never email - I dont think it works in this situation.
I would ring and nicely ask if they enjoyed their stay? Then go on to mention that in your TCs they should have brought anything to your attention when it happened, so if they tried to say the curtain poles just miraculously jumped off the wall, they should have contacted you at the time etc etc

Keep very pleasant and cool throughout the conversation. I have had damages etc paid for by taking this approach, but I learnt the hard way that an email just provokes a very unpleasant response.
Essar
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Post by Essar »

No doubt; in the future take a security/damage deposit.
However, you are running a business and these people owe you money for the wood, etc. It doesn't really matter how small an amount it is, it's a debt that they should have paid. Regardless, of whether they had a lousy holiday or not (sounds like an excuse to me) they should still pay. I'd also charge them for the extra person. I would send them an invoice and give them 7-days tp pay it. If they don't pay go through the small claims court to get the money back. I know it's a hassle for a small amount that many others would have you put down to experience, I would always pursue debts from chancers.
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Post by kg1 »

Afrique wrote:I had the same sort of thing yesterday. I checked in a family of three, Mum Dad and small child. When I went to check them out yesterday I knocked on the door and three strange adults answered the door. I was a little (really) shocked and said, 'excuse me but who are you'? They said they were leaving now, and they were friends of the family who had stayed, but that had left already! I asked them for the keys, and they told me the person who had dropped the family off at the airport, would bring them to me later on. I sent a message to the original family asking, who these people were, and where my keys were, they replied, 'Oh they were just friends came to say goodbye (with three large suitcases) and clean the apartment for you'. When the 'person' returned with the keys, hours later she was very forthcoming in telling me that all 7 had stayed and had slept on the couch and floor etc and she knew there would be trouble! I am working out my plan of action but also realise there is not a lot I can do now they have gone. I also had extra cleaning as the 'strangers' left a mess and I feel angry,disappointed,tricked and generally p#$%ed off.Sorry to hijack your post with 7 people :-)
Unbelievable!! I would have been furious, and would have deducted from security deposit a charge to cover the utilities used by the extra guests, extra cleaning, just to be bl**dy minded.

Sas401. I'm afraid you were manipulated. They must have known you'd seen the extra child, you didn't say anything, then you gave them logs -twice- without payment. They saw you as a pushover. I would go to small claims court. If they see you are serious they will pay up and hopefully will not dupe someone else. But then I am tough on issues like this, the years have taught me! Take a security deposit in future, focuses the mind.
Sam V
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Post by Sam V »

I agree with the aboves. I'm off to Birmingham small claims court in 10 minutes. Husband says it's a waste of my time/money, I say it the principle.
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Martha
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Post by Martha »

Lots of good advice here!

You could probably pursue them through the small claims court and in some ways that would be good, might teach them that there are consequences to this kind of behaviour. I must confess that if it were me, I would probably take this as a lesson for the future and not pursue it, it's not worth the stress...but I'd make sure it doesn't happen again.

"is it just that people are out there to just rip you off??!!"
Sadly yes for some people!

I would absolutely begin to take a security deposit. As has been said, there are plenty of chancers around who actively prefer to stay in places without one. I know there are people here who don't charge them and it works for them, that's great, but there are so many factors involved.

Lots of ways to do it - I do it with Paypal and it's extremely easy, just send a template invoice, which I refund when they leave and then there are no PayPal charges.

Also make sure you have a booking form and that it's clearly stated that only those on the form can stay.

I would have mentioned the extra child immediately, probably by email as I find people don't like to be confronted in person - but I guess you have to work out what you actually do in that situation when they are already installed. I don't think I'd quite have the stomach to throw them out but perhaps an extra charge?

It's quite useful to have a Paypal account set up for things like this.
I've heard before of the old "oh we don't have any cash" dodge, I bet some would have turned up soon enough if you'd said, "fine, you can pay by card but there's a surcharge for the fees"


Yes, it's a bit more work to have booking forms and deposits...but not much more, once you have your systems in place, and avoids a lot of grief like both these very unpleasant and stressful incidents.
Chalet la Foret, Chamonix
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