SWFrance unpopular or just saturated

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JaneS
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Location: Suisse Normande

Post by JaneS »

I have now shut as a B&B as all my bookings last year came via 1 OTA, it was not great - for six weeks from the beginning of May to the end of June last year I had no bookings. All the guests bar two sets were from Continental Europe.

I think there are various factors which have compounded the situation which I don't believe is limited to south-west France, as I am in Normandy. I cannot believe how empty the roads are round here, excluding Caen and really large towns which are always busy, of domestic and foreign cars.

Yes, the market is saturated. For Brits, there is the currency exchange which is not favourable, and they want to make their money go as far as they can. Spain is always good value and keeps all the family happy with inclusive deals, swimming pools and kids clubs, as one example. The world is getting smaller due to access to cheaper air fares and routes. For the international clients the risk of terrorism is high in their thoughts and they are thinking twice about Northern Europe as a destination.

Having said the above, I believe the profile of the guest who comes to France for their holidays/vacation has changed. I feel this is a big factor. The regulars who return year after year have suddenly stopped coming. Maybe age comes into it and the travelling is getting too much. You can understand the drivers from their point of view. I can understand too why the younger generation want to go and explore further afield, Japan, Australia, New Zealand, India, Thailand to name a few. How does France compare re experience? What is the guests' perception of France per ce, does it appeal to the modern day traveller/guest and does it live up to expectation from their point of view?

Yes, OTAs have a lot to answer for too as it is very easy for people to go to one site, every place they can stay for their chosen destination is listed on that site, so the research is done for them. All they have to do is click to book.

I don't have the answers, but I am going to have a long hard look at the whole picture, France as a destination and the guests' perception/expectation of France, before I decide what to do next. Whatever it is, I will not discount. Yes, add value throw something into mix for them, but no discount.
JaneS
GillianF
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Post by GillianF »

I agree with JaneS.

The guest profile has changed a lot over the 20+ years we've been renting. The guest used to come to be in France, enjoy the culture, food, wine, weather etc. They used to ooh and aaah at everything and were thrilled with old beams, exposed stone etc. Now, mostly, they couldn't really seem to know or care where they are as long as the sun is shining. They seem unimpressed by anything - it's all "of course, why wouldn't it be" sort of attitude.

Even our friends who own a second property here come less and less and not at all this year except because they were passing through and needed an overnight stop. They have young teenagers who are just bored here because there is no nightlife, music, cinema and they can't be bothered with the language challenge. All they seem to want to do is watch TV or use their electronic devices and they can do that anywhere in the world.

It's a sad picture at the moment and terrorism, exchange rates and cheap airfares, inclusive holidays, political uncertainty don't help at all.
Jensen
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Post by Jensen »

Totaly agree with the above comments, people used to come to France for the "Rural France Experience" ! On arrival their first question used to be where's the cork screw or where's the best restaurant ! Now it's what's the code for the Wi-Fi !
petitbois
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Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2008 6:54 am

Post by petitbois »

have to agree, when you look at the demographic of our regulars - they are for the most part close to or post retirement - French, Dutch, belgian, US, Irish & British. Lost many of our regulars over the years to campervanning, cruising & going away with the rest of their family. Sadly, we have lost many to ill health or worse.... Our own age may put younger guests off when looking at our profile on many sites, guest reviews highlight the peace & quiet, so not attractive to younger families unless visiting friends/family near by. Sign of the times & like Jane we are thinking of closing our doors after this season as all new bookings(very few this year) are from 1 OTA, though the regulars will continue to be made most welcome.
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CSE
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Post by CSE »

I still have a good book the Travellers' France by Arthur Eperon.I expect that the road numbering has changed but little gems like that are hard to find these days. Yes I know that DK publish a similar book.But they do not have the same feel.
Never try to out-stubborn your guests.
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Moliere
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Post by Moliere »

casasantoestevo wrote:I still have a good book the Travellers' France by Arthur Eperon.
Oh that brings back memories! That was our guide on our first tour of France, it must have been 1979 or 1980. It was a bit different then, English tourists were rarer than hen's teeth, credit cards were unknown, and you could just turn up in a town and get a room and dinner for the night at your first choice of hotel. Happy days. 😍

Mols
Jumping is just dressage with speed-bumps.
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French Cricket
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Post by French Cricket »

I'm not sure that the market down here is saturated, but I'd totally agree that the demographic has changed. The original Francophiles are, it seems, no more (love GillianF's description of those who ooh and aaah over old beams!) and the 'new breed' of UK guests aren't here because they love France, but just to travel 'somewhere'.

Many of our original guests are sadly ill or even no more, and we still manage to collect a few more 'devotees' each year, but on the whole we now find most UK guests are of the 'been there, done that' variety. Many people leave after a week or two not able to name a single place that they've been to - which makes me immeasurably sad, not for myself, but for our department, which wouldn't survive without its visitors and puts much effort into offering a very green and personal tourism.

We're not closing but we are winding down - partly because I'm working almost full time on citizens' rights but also because something of the joy has gone.
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CSE
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Post by CSE »

Moliere wrote:
casasantoestevo wrote:I still have a good book the Travellers' France by Arthur Eperon.
Oh that brings back memories! That was our guide on our first tour of France, it must have been 1979 or 1980. It was a bit different then, English tourists were rarer than hen's teeth, credit cards were unknown, and you could just turn up in a town and get a room and dinner for the night at your first choice of hotel. Happy days. 😍

Mols
Yes it was so much different.
I had not such a new car and Brittany ferries did not had a drive on-drive off boat. There was sort of a helter skelter ramp in the middle. Loaded, up my hand brake did not want to hold on the steep ramp. OH my, nearly did not get off the boat.
Never try to out-stubborn your guests.
Hells Bells
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Post by Hells Bells »

My first visit to France was as a 16 year old, on a church pilgramage to Lourdes. I travelled with my aunt, sister and cousin by train from Newcastle, crossed the channel by ferry, then took a sleeper train through France. I was blown away by everything except the religion. The shopping in the market, being allowed beer (I was 16), and the wonderful food, even in our cheap hotel.
I used to wander out to look at the mountains before dinner every evening. I remember stopping in stations and being given baguettes, and driving to Gavarnie in a coach and being petrified. I loved it so much, despite the plastic statues.
I love our place just as much out of the ski season as in it, but for different reasons, from May-December it becomes more of the 'real' France.
I've been working hard on bookings this spring and summer, but boy it was hard work, although it seems to have paid off, because my bank account is finally looking healthy.
Pirou
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Location: A bit north of Pirou, Normandy (50)

Post by Pirou »

JaneS wrote:Yes, the market is saturated. For Brits, there is the currency exchange which is not favourable, and they want to make their money go as far as they can. Spain is always good value and keeps all the family happy with inclusive deals, swimming pools and kids clubs, as one example. The world is getting smaller due to access to cheaper air fares and routes. For the international clients the risk of terrorism is high in their thoughts and they are thinking twice about Northern Europe as a destination.
I think I said on another topic that in April, I lost a return booking for September (they cancelled) and they said that apart from more certain weather, they'd done their sums and they could have a 2 week holiday for 4 in Spain cheaper than they could in France and the cost of living was a part of that. In our guest book (self-catering cottage) in the last year or so several people have mentioned how expensive food shopping is in France compared to the UK, that yes, wine was cheap but everything else was expensive.

I think rural France is falling out of fashion for British guests because its too easy and familiar. Fortunately French, Belgian, Dutch guests don't feel the same way but when you look at the number of properties available to rent especially up here it's really necessary to find sensible ways of setting yourself apart without choosing value adds that cut into the profits. Looking around and supplying only what your competitors provide is a way to business oblivion I think. You have to be thinking of new ideas all the time as well as where to advertise without losing half the profit in commission.

The things that caught our imagination when kids and teens - like the crispy baguettes, the croissants, the moules and even steak haché (which was probably exotic for me 45 years ago because of the garlic!!) are all available from the most ordinary of British supermarkets so there's nothing to catch the imagination for modern kids the way it happened for us.

I also agree with the not impressed by anything attitude comment. It's difficult for me to be sure because I'm not on site but our caretaker has said that she's surprised by how little guests go out. She notices when cars go in and out and considering there are the d-day beaches, Bayeux, long, unspoilt uncrowded beaches, Mont St Michel, Cherbourg, these don't get regular mentions in the guest book. Perhaps nowadays people are stressed out by their daily lives and on holiday they just want to get comfy, switch off their brains and vegetate rather than make decisions about what to do and where to go.

These are just things I've thought about, I'm not sure whether I'm right.
Last edited by Pirou on Thu Jun 29, 2017 6:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
GillianF
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Post by GillianF »

At the risk of turning this into a eulogy for 'the good old days' I agree with French Cricket.

More and more we have guests who just sit beside the pool all day with their electronic devices. They could be anywhere.

I empathise with the phrase that the 'joy' has gone from hosting. We used to enjoy meeting our guests, talking to them about France and life here and sharing our local knowledge. Nowadays, it is very much that they aren't interested in us, France or the area.
gh
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Location: Poitou Charente/Moraira/UK

Post by gh »

My experience now for our French home, is that when an enquiry comes is it usually turns into a booking. Whereas previously conversion rate would be every 2nd or 3rd into a booking. Why who knows!

We are finding that we are receiving more and more 3 generations of families staying. Young children of pre/primary age with parents and grandparents. So perhaps the older teens want bright lights? Perhaps cost sharing? Empty nesters with friends are more prevalent too.

Our guest book if full of comments along the lines of - came stressed going home chilled and recharged - peaceful and relaxing.

In essence it seems some holiday makers want buzz and some want chill.

We bought when our children were young and now they come with our grandchildren during the summer holidays.

Though they go more to our place in Moraira where the weather is better outside summer holidays. :lol:
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French Cricket
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Post by French Cricket »

GillianF wrote: I empathise with the phrase that the 'joy' has gone from hosting. We used to enjoy meeting our guests, talking to them about France and life here and sharing our local knowledge. Nowadays, it is very much that they aren't interested in us, France or the area.
I'm sad to read this, Gillian, but relieved as well to know that it's not just us. I suspect that people like you and I who live on site and see ourselves as 'hosts' rather than just letting properties are now becoming dinosaurs ... the OTAs and instant booking have something to do with that, I suspect.

Glad I'm at the far end of my 20 plus years and not at the beginning :cry:
Pirou
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Post by Pirou »

Continuing to think about this thread this morning (when I should have been concentrating on other things) :oops: it occurred to me that another barrier to finding enough British holidaymakers is older francophiles buy properties of their own. In the last couple of weeks I've taken two shortish bookings of 4 and 5 days in early autumn for people who have said they are house-hunting. This may not apply so much in the Pyrenees which is less well known and a bit of a trek for Brits so not suitable for a spontaneous long weekend away, but around here and further south the number of British owned homes is staggering. Then of course, to pay for their second homes and their own holidays, the new owners rent out the house to a dwindling number of holidaymakers. Bit like what we're doing. :lol: :oops:

And has globalisation (or feeling European) had an effect on the desire to learn more about a village or town or region? For many averagely-off British people countries like France, Belgium, Spain, Italy even, don't seem so foreign any more especially when on many high streets in the UK there are multiple languages being spoken. Hearing a foreign language like French or Spanish in a bar or shop in the country of origin is no longer particularly noteworthy or exotic and with everything being available via the internet cultural 'notes' are being blurred. You can equip your second home with Ikea whether you're in Cornwall, the Pyrenees or Madrid. Not that I'm saying any of us would. :wink: Are more guests just looking to "chillax" with an iPad, a Kindle, a nice view and a bottle now rather than drive or hike around getting to grips with a different culture?

Bear in mind my thinking may be delivering rubbish!!
chipiechoo
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Post by chipiechoo »

Concur with all the previous threads. Our last guests a middle aged couple have been coming to France for years so they told us and had decided to come further South as they wanted to see a new area. What they saw in their 2 weeks with us was perfect weather though they found it to hot, so stayed indoors for 2 weeks, he played on his computer device whilst they both watched English TV from the crack of dawn until dusk. Thankfully they had done the big shop on the way down but mainly before leaving the UK:roll:, so only had to leave the safety of the gite twice in the 2 weeks for wine replenishment and a small supermarket top up.
The big plus I guess is that our property has lovely views, so they obviously saw enough of the area to say been there done it.
Yes we are after 11 years becoming rather cynical also and not enjoying it quite so much.
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