Licence of first occupation

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shaz
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Licence of first occupation

Post by shaz »

If you don´t have a licence of first occupation what do you do when applying for a holiday rental licence. The property is in an urbanised area has mains water etc. It is not a new property and is around thirty years old.
Marks
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Post by Marks »

Has the property ever had a licence of first occupation? If so then you would be able to get a copy from your local town hall.

Assuming there was a licence of first occupation and the property has been bought/sold in those 30 years then there will be a licence of second occupation, again you can request a copy at the town hall.

If there was never a licence of first occupation then you would need to ask at the town hall why not. It may be there were/are infractions which would mean creating a project with an architect, correcting the infractions and submitting your application. In this case it could be costly and open up a whole can of worms.
Some guests just need a sympathetic pat. On the head. With a hammer.
costa-brava
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Post by costa-brava »

Find an "arquitecto tecnico" also called "aparejador". Easy to find in Google. He is a building surveyor cum draftsman. He or she will inspect your property and do a "cedula de habitabilidad". The certificate of first occupation only lasts 15 years. Every old property should have a cedula. If not it is not a legally habitable property in the eyes of the law. The cedula will cost about €100 but you also have to pay for the documentation etc (about 50 more). It takes 4-6 weeks. Easy-peasy if your property is on the "cadastro" property register. The aparejador will ask for the last receipt of your IBI tax to get the cadastro number.
Marks
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Post by Marks »

Hmmm. In theory yes assuming that a cedula was not originally issued. BUT the architect is then assuming responsibility for confirming that the house was built to the original plan and if those plans are not available unlikely anyone would want to take on that responsbility.

A cedula can be issued for 5, 10 or even 15 years depending on the town hall, in my area the same town hall has issued 5 and 10 year cedulas for the same type of properties in the same road. Once 'expired' you do not have to renew it.

For the purpose of a tourist licence, in Alicante at least, the cedula does not have to be current, an 'expired' one is fine as that is proof that the property exists and was built to the original plan.
Some guests just need a sympathetic pat. On the head. With a hammer.
flamingo
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Post by flamingo »

Hi Shaz

I believe that you live in the Chiclana de la Frontera area.

This area is very peculiar as there are so many illegal house builds, and you may find things are very different with the rental rule requirements. you would be better getting specific advice from a local solicitor.

Many local ex pats in the area, me included, would automatically be able to nominate a certain solicitor. As I am not sure I can provide his details here if you would like his name/company message me.
costa-brava
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Post by costa-brava »

Flamingo's point is very pertinent. There are the holiday rental rules of each autonomous Spanish region but each little corner has its own idiosyncrasies. And if a building didn't comply with the rules when it was built it really will need a legal professional to bring it into line.
However, Spanish law requires that all dwellings carry a valid current certificate. It's basically like a car; it must comply with the rules when it's new and then as it gets older needs to have an inspection and a new certificate. If a property was bought in the last 3 or 4 years the notary would have insisted on a first occupation certificate or a cedula de habitabilidad. If you own a dwelling in Spain and have neither of these you own a property that is either illegal or in need of renovation (i.e. derelict).
Getting the tourist license is just one side of it.
(Sorry but I have to drop out of the discussion for now. Off tomorrow to the floods of Thailand)
Marks
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Post by Marks »

Friends of ours bought a new build in October 2016 without a cedula, the notary did not insist on it. The developer has just applied to the town halll for the cedula, 13 months after they took possession. Now they can apply for their tourist licence.
Some guests just need a sympathetic pat. On the head. With a hammer.
costa-brava
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Post by costa-brava »

Just a few minutes to chip in again. I'm on dinner and it's pizza.
I've checked a few sites for legal opinions and it would appear (though I'm not certain) that the obligation on the seller to have a first occupation license or cedula on the day of purchase applies in Andalucia, Galicia and Catalunya. Other regions are more lenient but the absence of the document can render the seller in breach of contract.
From the point of view of the new owner, the absence of any document can hinder the contracting of utilities (especially if you need to make any changes with supply or supplier.) And it presents problems for things like a tourist rental license or any other rental contract. It also will present problems if you want to sell later or pass the property on to your heirs.
An aparejador will visit your property and will tell you how it is without charging you. If he does the complete inspection you will have to pay and if he/she says it needs some things updated you will have to do this usually before you get the cedula. He does not need any reference to the old plans but if you have the plans it makes his job easier.
In Scotland you must by law have a home report before you can sell a house (not currently in England). The cedula de habitabildad is not significantly different.
For holiday rental licenses its main purpose, apart from validating habitability, is that it states the number of persons who can occupy the property.
I really, really recommend that every owner checks it out. And the first place to check is inside the back of the folder of your "escritura"
Have to bow out now but I'll check back on the thread in December.
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CSE
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Post by CSE »

costa-brava wrote:Just a few minutes to chip in again. I'm on dinner and it's pizza.
Mmm that very traditional Catalan dish :wink:
costa-brava wrote:....it would appear (though I'm not certain) that the obligation on the seller to have a first occupation license or cedula on the day of purchase applies in Andalucia, Galicia and Catalunya. Other regions are more lenient but the absence of the document can render the seller in breach of contract.

Intresting information...In relation to the quote how would one obtain one for a 150 year old house? Cannot remember was were documents given when we purchased. Certainly that the house was licensed to operate and had been rebuilt to the galician regulations. Suppose it must be some sort of documentation for occupancy. We have our own water and sewage disposal system Light is up and running Bin is emptied every two weeks. Recent inspections meant that the IBI rose quite a bit because for some reason the restoration and amplification had not been noted by the concello. What a crazy country this is at times. So much paperwork and nothing joined up.
Never try to out-stubborn your guests.
costa-brava
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Post by costa-brava »

Casa wrote "So much paperwork and nothing joined up."
I think lots of the problems that people are encountering now is that they are now joining up the loose ends. And with so many changes the local officials are not always up to date.
We got caught with the increase in IBI too. It actually came from updating the "catastro" and so the castastral value. Ironically, I think in our case it was triggered by getting new "cedulas de habitabilidad" three years ago. It's worth checking in the "sede electronica de catastro" to make sure they have your square metres right. We managed to get our IBI down about 20% because the catastro had us with too many metres. So the increase was balanced out by getting the "superficio" corrected.
I'm not 100% sure Casa but I think yours is a Casa Rural which I think must meet certain standards but is not subject to the cedula de habitabilidad. You'll be better informed than me. But definitely worth checking that they haven't given half your garden to your neighbour!
They have made the website more tricky than before https://www.sedecatastro.gob.es but if you can't get it to work you can usually get the same details from the Ayunamiento.

With reference to the pizzas, I think that with our "ex-president" in Brussels we may now have "moules frites" as the national dish.
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