Average rates for property maintenance / mgmt? S. France

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TobiasT
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Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2017 11:36 am
Location: Fayence

Average rates for property maintenance / mgmt? S. France

Post by TobiasT »

We're completing on our first property abroad very soon, in the foothills in Provence, about 40 mins from the coast (1 hr from Nice).

I wanted to get a sense of property management costs as we'll still be based in the UK. It'll be rented out as well as serve as a holiday home - we only expected income to cover running costs, but starting to worry annual maintenance costs may be higher than the lettings income! There's a pool, medium garden, detached house, no outbuildings.

I know it will vary quite a bit across France, but any hints would help get a better flavour. Ideally average costs in Provence, Cote d'Azur (not the coast, as I'm sure they shoot up!).

Thank - Tobias and Julia
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teapot
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Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:08 am
Location: Loire valley

Post by teapot »

Tobias, it is indeed tricky, the early mistakes are most likely the most costly. You no doubt get to hear of the best people for this and that when you have met others renting but they guard them closely for fear of losing them. That's how ours went. Initially we had someone for this, someone for that and one year it was 5 different people we paid so the debt was not sustainable but when you need help and there are not many who are available you take what you can get.

Take the pool, some pools take more looking after than others, I charge what I deem reasonable and to my customers very fair indeed compared to some local people. One sticks in my mind particularly, they were charged €800 for some unnecessary work which would have taken me a hour, two if I had to actually go shopping for the part, I would have charged 1/9th of that.

If you look in the pool section there are people on here being charged a whole years chemicals in just one month. It simply doesn't have to be like that. Just because the person you employ to look after your pool does not know what they are doing why should you be expected to fund their errors. You should also go out of your way to make it easy for them to look after the pool with decent pool test equipment which they should log down the results of and feed back to you. They are your only defense if someone becomes ill.

That's enough from me, there are some great people on this forum with years of great experience.
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GillianF
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Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:06 pm
Location: Dordogne

Post by GillianF »

This is a can of worms.

Things to consider are whether your property and everything in it is 'robust' to stand up to careless, clumsy guests. I don't mean that they would intentionally damage or break anything (though you might be unlucky) but rather that things are of good design, good quality, 'foolproof' etc. etc.

Another thing to consider is the sort of bookings you will receive.

We look after a local property for friends who have used it as a holiday home and rent it out. In 'good years' there are 10 weeks or so let and most will be fortnightly bookings. Paying us for a change of linen and a clean of the pool on the middle Saturday, full changeovers, Winter maintenance etc. they cover the cost of advertising and running the house for the year. But, last year, for example, was not a good one and they only had five weeks booked - all single weeks. This meant that every week there was the cost of a full changeover so they made no money after costs. Even with more bookings if they had all been weekly with the cost of doing changeovers I doubt they would have made much more than covering the basic costs which would not have allowed for any maintenance, re-decoration, improvements etc.
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teapot
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Location: Loire valley

Post by teapot »

GillianF wrote:This is a can of worms.
Judging by the responses a very small can :lol:
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vacancesthezan
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Re: Average rates for property maintenance / mgmt? S. France

Post by vacancesthezan »

TobiasT wrote:We're completing on our first property abroad very soon, in the foothills in Provence, about 40 mins from the coast (1 hr from Nice).

I wanted to get a sense of property management costs as we'll still be based in the UK. It'll be rented out as well as serve as a holiday home - we only expected income to cover running costs, but starting to worry annual maintenance costs may be higher than the lettings income! There's a pool, medium garden, detached house, no outbuildings.

I know it will vary quite a bit across France, but any hints would help get a better flavour. Ideally average costs in Provence, Cote d'Azur (not the coast, as I'm sure they shoot up!).

Thank - Tobias and Julia
Spreadsheet ?

Why dont you just list the jobs that you would expect to have to be done and the frequency. Obviously the garden and pool will need doing whether you have renters or not but this would at least give you some idea.

Dont forget laundry which for a larger property would need to be done separately and away from the property.

Then estimate how long in hours terms or number of visits per week.

Then add an allowance as a contingency for wear and tear, pool chemical etc!

If you look on the internet you will find some property manager who do list how much they charge (or indicate at least!).

For example: There is a management company that we see around a lot (lbv). I havent given their full name as I dont know if it is allowed. They do indicate what their charges are likely to be.

Also have a look at previous posts here and you will find indications of prices for the different aspects of management

Add it all up and it would at least give you a starting point. If you have the number of rental weeks (and a price you think you can achieve) as variables you can see what level of rentals you would need to cover your costs.

Good luck

VT
TobiasT
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Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2017 11:36 am
Location: Fayence

Post by TobiasT »

Thank-you all for your responses! The site hadn't notified me of the replies so apologies for the time it's taken to come back!

Some helpful tips here, and actually we spoke to LBV whose rates seemed reasonable but are unfortunately too busy to take us on at the moment. A good sign for the area, I think.

We're hoping to have it rented out for 10 weeks a year so it sounds as though that should cover our costs based on your friends, GillianF, but appreciate what you say about the types of booking and whether we can hit that 10 week target.

We've noticed a real lack of holiday rentals that cater for young families i.e. that come with highchairs, cots etc so, aside from trying to appeal to the average renter (friends and slightly older families) we may be able to tap into that group too. I guess time will tell.

Cheers - Tobias and Julia
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Moliere
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Post by Moliere »

TobiasT wrote: We've noticed a real lack of holiday rentals that cater for young families i.e. that come with highchairs, cots etc
I don't know if such equipment was your only criterium, but I reckon most renters either have them or can get them on request, so it's not a biggie. Maybe try and think of some more usp's to broaden your appeal.
I think you're wise to set a low initial target of 10 weeks pa, but if you're doing it right you should find that increases sharply in a year or two; we are over in Languedoc and did 14 weeks in our first year, by year three it was 22, which in the light of a six-month season here, was very pleasing.

Reverting to your original question, our annual costs for cleaning, laundry, pool and garden plus general oversight for a three-bedroom villa were just over €7000 pa, but this was in 2011, perhaps you could work from that base.

Good luck
Mols
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