Designing layout for new FHLs

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Polos mum
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Designing layout for new FHLs

Post by Polos mum »

I have just started working with an architect on a design for conversion of a large L shaped barn into FHL. I've stayed in holiday cottages but that's where my experience ends !

I would love to hear from seasoned FHL owners both suggestions for good layouts / ideas to incorporate at the build stage and things that bug you about your own property layout / design that I should avoid.


I'm currently thinking 2 FHLs one in each side of the L shape with probably a connecting door so it could be 4 bedroom or 2 x 2 beds.
Thanks in advance for your advice.
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newtimber
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Post by newtimber »

The first problem you can do nothing about is the L shape and how you deal with the garden. If the garden is in the obvious place within the L, then you have privacy problems with a shared garden or you have to divide the gardens which block the light.

I really wouldn't go with the connecting door. For safety reasons it then has to be a fire door which isn't very attractive and you have to adjust your layout so that it won't be in the way; and you have two kitchens and dining and living areas which are the wrong size for the larger party when the connecting door is open etc etc
Polos mum
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Post by Polos mum »

This is exactly why experienced opinion is so valuable - many thanks for taking the time.
There is no garden at the moment, the shed is old pig stys. The inside of the L would be our garden - which I'm planning on keeping quite separate.

I had thought about one garden going along in front of the longer L part (to make a T shape!) and the other in front of the FHL - but privacy for either would be hard to achieve.

It won't be beautiful established gardens (within the next 10 years!) I had in mind a decked area with seating and bbq and some nice pots for greenery - sound like panel fence is key
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greenbarn
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Post by greenbarn »

A lot of choices will be influenced by who you identify as your target market, but a few thoughts:
This is your only chance to design the size of the bedrooms; for flexibility aim to be able to fit a 6ft wide zip/link bed with full access both sides, so that you can also have two adult sized singles. If that simply won’t fit, make sure you can fit a king size, again with full access both sides. Many guests now consider a double as too small, and that’s going to become more the case.
Ensuite bathroom(s) if at all possible.
Shower, bath, both (ideal, but...) or shower/bath is much debated and again depends a lot on your market, and the space available.
We have connecting doors between our two 2-bedroom properties, at the living level. It offers an expensive sleep 8 option - it’s almost bound to be more expensive than a single property that sleeps 8 as you need to charge the full rate for both properties to make it work for you. We have two heavy interconnecting firedoors with a soundproofing gap in between. (We had to have firedoors everywhere, but it will depend on a combination of your planning approval and building control.)
The combination doesn’t get used a lot; if it does it's usually in combination with our 3-bedroom unit in the same barn (but not connected) for a large family group. Large groups are invariably more work - you’ll be relocating crockery, cutlery, chairs etc etc. However, in what was essentially a new build internally, it wasn’t a big expense to include.

It’s a barn, so make use of as many interesting features as possible. When we bought our property the barn had plans in place for conversion to 3 holiday lets. The architect who’d drawn them up had managed to lose almost every attractive aspect of the original barn, but the plans had been passed. We found an architect who lived in a barn conversion he’d done himself and was sympathetic to the building and what we wanted. He redesigned the two smaller units as upside down to incorporate the full height and effect of the original roof trusses into the living area, instead of being upstairs bedrooms with the ceilings sheeted off horizontally and thus hiding the main internal feature of a barn. Some aspects of the barn we couldn’t retain; it has wonderful stone walls but rather than leaving them exposed internally they had to be deep lined to conform with insulation regs. Shame, but on the plus side the heating bills are reduced.
Heating is another thought. Zone controlled underfloor heating is fantastic for a number of reasons - it works really well with heat pumps, it gives an overall warmth with virtually no hotspots or coldspots, and really important - it leaves you completely free to position furniture without having to work around radiators. As part of the build, it’s affordable. (Downside is that the building can take several hours to reach temperature or cool down as the floor acts as a massive heat store - although more often that’s an advantage.)
I’ve rambled on long enough. If you feel so inclined, have a look at the photo galleries on our website where I’ve included a number of progress shots of the conversion www.greenbarncottages.co.uk
Pixiepower
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Post by Pixiepower »

If you will be aiming at being dog/walker/cyclist friendly it’s worth thinking about practical flooring and maybe a utility area/drying room to cope with wet clothing and dogs.
Upside down living can be good to benefit from views etc.
Our guests comment positively on the spacious bedrooms with ensuites.
Woodburning stoves are popular, as are hot tubs although the later are high maintenance.
(We have one rental property at present and planning to build 2 more including most of the above features-but not a hot tub)
Giraffe
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Post by Giraffe »

Lots of excellent advice from greenbarn and newtimber. A few thoughts:

. have ensuite wherever possible.

. Consider council tax/business rates, particularly the issue of whether to have have one or two properties.

. I have a very large 4 bedroom FHL which was originally our family holiday home. I find it difficult to rent at good prices outside of peak holiday seasons. If I was doing it from scratch I would go for 2x2 bedroom lets.

. You need to design for your target market eg will you allow dogs - need easy clean floors.
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Polos mum
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Post by Polos mum »

Really helpful - many thanks

It's single story (the ground floor footprint is 160 m2) so I think still big enough for two - although I will reassess that in light of super king beds and all ensuite. Right on the top of a big hill so fab views from the ground floor

Definitely the walker, cyclist market - realistically more budget end we aren't actually in the beautiful bits of Yorkshire but within spitting distance of there. 5 miles from Bronte museum.

Dog friendly facilities - so a bigger utility room is also a good idea. Maybe just the one but done really nicely.
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Polos mum
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Post by Polos mum »

Greenbarn - yours is amazing, my stys aren't even on the same scale as your barn so sadly not much to salvage although we have an absolute tonne of stone from our house renovations so I could put in some old stone to give it some character
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Polos mum
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Post by Polos mum »

Greenbarn - yours is amazing, my stys aren't even on the same scale as your barn so sadly not much to salvage although we have an absolute tonne of stone from our house renovations so I could put in some old stone to give it some character
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Nuthatch
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Post by Nuthatch »

Hi - we're just down the road from you in Cragg Vale, Hebden Bridge!

I'd say go for the upper end of the market rather than the budget end - once you're up and running your ongoing costs aren't vastly different, whereas your income is.

And you're welcome to come and visit us if that would help - we're always happy to show people around and let you see how we work.
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greenbarn
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Post by greenbarn »

Thanks for the compliments - we love our barn!

Agree with Nuthatch - seriously consider the upper end of the market; the middle market is saturated in many areas and the budget market is just as much hard work for meagre profits where a couple of breakages can be significant.

Others can maybe provide a better insight, but if two bedrooms is going to be a squeeze there’s a good niche upper-end market for couples - big comfy bed, really luxurious bathroom (but make sure it’s easy to clean!!).

Starting from scratch we put porcelain tiles as flooring throughout. It works really well with u/floor heating, very easy to clean and generally ideal for dogs (apart from those in need of non-slip floors while recovering from very expensive - AMHIKT - knee surgery). Long lasting of course - we’d have been looking at the expense of replacing carpet by now if we’d gone for that. A few rugs make it more inviting. Extra bonus - if guests drop a wine glass - invariably full - there’s a broken glass and a pool of wine they can mop up; you’re not faced with trying to make a wine-stained carpet look acceptable to incoming guests in a few hours!
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Moliere
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Post by Moliere »

My regular suggestion - if you can make one or both truly disabled-friendly you'll be onto a winner. But you must do it seriously with proper advice.
Other than that - all of the above, so much good advice up there.

Bonne chance
Moliere
Jumping is just dressage with speed-bumps.
Polos mum
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Post by Polos mum »

Thanks so much Nuthatch - I may well take you up on that offer !
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greenbarn
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Post by greenbarn »

Moliere wrote:My regular suggestion - if you can make one or both truly disabled-friendly you'll be onto a winner. But you must do it seriously with proper advice.
Other than that - all of the above, so much good advice up there.

Bonne chance
Moliere
That’s an excellent suggestion, especially as you’re starting with a single storey property.
akwe-xavante
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Post by akwe-xavante »

Think about access to plumbing and waste water sewage pipework, will it be accessible and easy to unblock? Put in phone and ethernet cables in early from where your router will be to where your TV's and or CCTV cameras will be. Wireless is a great idea but can be troublesome and unreliable. Cables just work. No trouble or hassle.

Lock away the router in a cuboard to prevent fiddling and guests resetting it!

Wet room style bathroom without shower tray and screens and or cubicals reduces cleaning enormously.

Lock away boiler and CH control unit, give them a roomstat only. A frost stat somewhere wired up reverse ways around to restrict max temp of central heating (heating goes off at 23 degrees apposed to comes on at 10 degrees as an example). Put cables in early even if you decide not to use them later.

I personally don't like to see TV coaxial cables and telephone cables inside or outside a building and most people don't think about these until the very end. Put these in early so you can cover them up / hide them out of sight. Putting a TV on the wall, you'll need power and an ethernet cable fitting so that it's all hidden by the TV itself later.

You can never have to many wall sockets, i put 3 double sockets in where there is going to be a TV etc. Always put at least one double socket in where there is going to be a phone point (Routers and switches etc). If you are putting in CCTV or some other internet accessible device(s) you need an ethernet cable and enough power sockets where you intend to put them. If you connect them up wirelessly you may regret it later.

UPVC doors, i always order front and back doors together with matching keys so you only have to give guests one key that fits both doors. Double Glazing.... Buy units with vertical blinds within the windows. Cleaning, repairing, maintaining or replacing vertical blinds is expensive and a pain.
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