Dog policy

Agencies and other headaches, keys and cleaners, running costs and contracts...in short, all the things we spend so much of our time doing behind the scenes.<br>
Clarissa
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Dog policy

Post by Clarissa »

Hello everyone, this is my first post. In February we bought a house with two holiday cottages next door, the business was already set up and has been running for a few years, although we are completely new to the holiday cottage business. Our guest information folders already contained a dog policy which we have maintained, with only a couple of tweeks.

Over Easter we had a returning guest with two dogs who we asked, very politely, to take outside the garden for their regular toileting after we noticed that he was not doing so. We realise accidents can happen, but it states in the pet policy that we would appreciate dogs being taken out into the lane for routine toileting - which is a matter of yards away and only sees the occasional tractor. In addition we are surrounded by open fields which only occasionally have cows.

The original pet policy that we took over stated that dogs must not be exercised in the garden but unfortunately he obviously took umbrage with our request, and wrote us a really bad review on our agency website, saying we had ruined his holiday and where he compared us unfavourably with the previous owners who, in his words, had a more "relaxed and realistic approach to dog ownership".

This review has already caused us to lose a booking and have several enquiries re future (already booked) ones. We have been told that we have no right to reply. Also the agency has emailed me the following:


"I was calling in regards to your recent feedback regarding pets. I know you have spoken to one of my colleagues earlier but really we just need to clarify everything. If a property is pet friendly, it is essential that dogs are allowed to generally use the grounds and also be able to do their business on there too."

My position is that we do not solely cater for guests with dogs and I don't think it is too much to ask that dog owners walk a few yards out of the gate to let their dogs poo. Our pet policy says "remember, there could be children running barefoot in the garden next week". As a former dog owner myself, who frequently booked holiday lets, I always took my dog off the premises for this purpose, out of consideration for future guests and the owner.

I suppose I just would like some views from other people who use this forum on how to approach the agency after this email from them - and whether you think I am being too fussy or they are being too demanding.

Thanks, I have been finding previous forum posts really interesting and enlightening and look forward to contributing further.
zebedee
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Post by zebedee »

Hi Clarissa and welcome.
I do have some sympathy for you. It is your property and your rules should apply. I accept dogs at my cottage.

I think you have a couple of problems with your website and the messages it does and doesn’t give about dogs.

The properties look really lovely, but there are very few photos.

You could do with a photo specifically of the garden area (which looks quite big on the photos that you have already, is this the garden, or one of the open fields that you mention?)
Also some photos of the Lane and fields that you say people can exercise their dogs in.
Perhaps a dedicated page to the rules you have about dogs, so people know what they are booking??

The other issue with your website is the guest comments. There are at least two which say what a wonderful time the guest dogs had being exercised in the garden. This is giving somewhat different message to what guests will then find in the handbook rules when they arrive.

I would imagine that owners of small dogs may think the garden is suitable space for exercise, but a medium or large dog would want a big running area.

I am not sure from what you say, if you are worried that guests won’t clear up after their dogs, but that it would be ok not to clear up in the fields and Lane? I find dog owners are quite responsible about clearing up after their dogs these days. Is that a suitable compromise for you?

Saying that, personally, I would prefer to use the open fields and the Lane to exercise my dog if I was your guest. However, if I knew I was going to use a field that sometimes housed cows, I would want to be warned beforehand so as to have wellington boots with me, as those fields can get very deep and muddy in places.

One thing I have learnt is that guests do have very different and varying ideas.....what is logical to one person is not to another!

As I said at the beginning, it is your property and your rules. If the matter is important to you, I would suggest that the garden area is fenced and accessed via a gate with a notice on it “NO DOGS”. But do make this clear on your website before people book.
Clarissa
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Post by Clarissa »

Thanks for your reply Zebedee.

Just to clarify, we are completely happy for dogs to run, play and relax in the gardens, we just ask guests to do the routine toileting outside the garden, in the lane or the fields (where we do ask them to clean it up as well). We understand that "accidents" can occur, and that there might be the odd poop in the garden, but a small number of dog owners seem to expect to put their dog/s out the door to do the necessary every morning and evening rather than make the tiny effort required to go down the lane with them. As mentioned above, as a former dog owner I know that even after picking up after a dog there is often "residue" and I don't wish my non-dog owning guests to not be able to enjoy the gardens as a result. Most of our guests understand the reasons for the policy and are happy to comply, and our non-dog owning guests have also commented that they appreciate it too.

I am disappointed that the agency we are with (again, inherited from the previous owners) are suddenly not supportive on this (I have spoken to individual staff over the phone who have been fully supportive on at least two occasions, whereas this latest email is from the "new owners manager" - and I feel it is unfair that they don't at the very least give us a right to reply to this one particular review which is just now causing us so many issues. Apart from anything else, the review also mentions a faulty oven which said guest never brought to our attention during his stay (and which has now been replaced), and another inaccuracy about being charged extra for dogs (which actually only applies to private bookings, we get nothing extra from the agency when we accept a dog.)

We have two adjoining properties, one garden is slightly larger than the other (but neither are massive) and the fields are all around. People who book through the agency see more pictures and are also made aware that the properties are surrounded by a dairy farm. We haven't changed very much on the website since we inherited it and it is on the long list of "to-dos" - but at the moment, most of our bookings come via the agency anyway...

Sorry for the long post!
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greenbarn
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Post by greenbarn »

My view is that if the property is marketed as dog friendly, AND has an enclosed area, guests with dogs will generally expect to be able to let their dogs out into that area first and last thing.
If that isn’t the case you need to make it very clear before people book so they are aware, and they either accept that or can choose to book elsewhere if it’s really a big deal for them (in which case you wouldn’t want them anyway!).
There are plenty of guests with dogs who fully respect the wishes of the property owner - it’s their property after all; unfortunately there are also a number of dog owning guests who will cry ”NOT dog friendly!!” at the merest hint of any restrictions on the freedom of their precious furbabies, including not being allowed in the bed with them... That’s their problem.
akwe-xavante
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Post by akwe-xavante »

This one winds me up too i'm afraid.

My agents policy is that where dogs are welcome the garden must be enclosed so that dogs cannot escape etc but at the same time the T&C's say dogs must not be unattended or allowed roam or foul in gardens!?

However verbally and in reality they expect dogs to be left to roam freely unattended and dogs are expected to foul in gardens!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My garden isn't enclosed and dogs can escape, enclosed meaning secure well maintained boundary structures capable of holding in dogs so that they cannot escape and it clearly says so on their website. The description of my listing clearly says that my garden is not secure and dogs can escape and dogs are welcome.

My agents T&C's is no fouling etc and i my welcome pack it says the same. I ask that dogs must not be left unattended anywhere at any time including the garden and where possible dogs must not pee or poo in the garden. It also says that poo bags are available for them to use if an accident should happen.

I was very relaxed about this for my first year and what a mess i found on three occasions and the garden stank for weeks on end in dry warm weather. Guests without dogs which outnumber those with dogs by about 4 to 1 started complaining about the smell and one set of guests left early and wanted a refund.

Now i've toughened up the garden is much more respected and so far and as far as i know i've only lost two bookings because of my "No Poo & Pee in garden" rules.

Stick with your NO POO rules, you'll lose a few loyal guests that have dogs but you'll gain a few too because those that have no dogs are more likely to book knowing that you have such rules.

Who wants to sit out in a garden with a glass of wine to read a book having to smell dog poo and pee, nobody.

In my opinion, just because dogs are welcome doesn't mean that they can allow dogs to foul in the garden or indeed anywhere else for that matter.

Smelling and finding poo is rare now but it does still happen occasionally.

I would think of your negative review as a positive one myself.

You won't know yet but just how many bookings have dogs in proportion to those that won't? This may influence what your dog fouling policy should be.
Martha
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Post by Martha »

I feel your pain! As a dog owner I think your rules are absolutely fair. Perhaps as Zebedee says, a little more clarity in the rules, with photos etc. Some people really need it spelling out, they are used to just letting the dog into the garden in the morning and evening, and don't appreciate that more consideration is needed when others will be dealing with the residue.

I would push back to the agents, it seems to me completely obvious that there are levels of 'dog friendly' in a property and that is absolutely fair. Same as 'child friendly'. Some places are set up to accept any amount of dogs and accept the compromises to other guests. The vast majority set some rules, and these are usually individual according to the property and its setup.

Also I personally think that the agency is perhaps not being realistic using the words 'dog-friendly'. It does rather imply that dogs are completely welcome to do whatever they want. There's a big difference between 'marketed as dog-friendly' and 'dogs accepted with conditions'. Perhaps the agents need to differentiate, for everyone's sake.

or as akwe-xavante put it more succinctly - "just because dogs are welcome doesn't mean that they can allow dogs to foul in the garden or indeed anywhere else for that matter. "

Dog owners considering this as a restriction are going to find their holidaying options pretty limited in my view. I wouldn't let my dog out to poop wherever she wanted in the garden if I was a guest! Not unless I knew the owner very well! I take her out unless it's really inconvenient, which is clearly not the case for you.

We don't accept dogs in general but if someone asks I will consider it, and I have the same rules as you about this. Of course it can't be helped sometimes but I expect the mess to be minimised.

Good luck...I think the agents are doing a disservice to the majority of responsible pet owners by their 'all or nothing' approach, which will surely deter other owners from accepting dogs, ultimately not good for anyone.
Chalet la Foret, Chamonix
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Cymraes
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Post by Cymraes »

'm with Greenbarn here.

We are "dog friendly"and rural. In my experience most dog owners will expect to be able to use the garden freely and the vast majority will clear up after their pets. As the owner of a male dog myself there is no way I'd be able to stop him watering some of the plants unless I kept him on a lead in the garden. In which case I might as well book somewhere without a garden.

Ultimately it's a case of your property so your rules but you do need to make them crystal clear before they book what your rules are.
sparkJS
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Post by sparkJS »

I always take my dog on holiday.mwhen I'm booking the only thing I'm looking for is 'Pet Friendly' or 'Pets Allowed'. If that is the case then I'd always expect to be able to open the back door before I go to bed to let my dog do its business. I'll always pick up (next morning probably).

I would expect your advert to say 'Not suitable for dogs', which tells me that I could bring my dog but it's going to be a pain, a bit like my last holiday which turned out to be a top floor flat and each evening before I go to bed I had to get changed, get the lead and keys and walk round the corner to a supermarket car park! Similarly in the mornings. It makes a difference to my holiday as I like to be lazy and letting the dog out for a quick wee should be possible without

I think there is a difference to places that are friendly to dogs and ones that tolerate them.
MG
Circé
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Post by Circé »

I agree with sparkJS.

Going back to the OP, I'm confused about the reference to the 'agency', when the weblink on your post, Clarissa, seems to take me to your private website, and you also say you 'bought a house with two holiday cottages next door'. So what are the agency doing for you, and how much control do they have?
Where are your reviews? You refer to a bad one.

When I googled 'Drumfad cottage' I saw immediately that according to snaptrip, sykescottages, tripadvisor and homeaway you are dog friendly. You really do need to get your pet policy sorted in your head and agreed with your agency(ies), otherwise you're going to have some sleepless nights and niggling emails!

Good luck with your letting venture, and try to worry less.
zebedee
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Post by zebedee »

Ah...Sykes!
Maybe that explains the agency attitude!
Tournesol
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Post by Tournesol »

I'm getting annoyed when we say pets may be accommodated by request that it's only after they've booked and paid through b.com that they mention that by the way they have a dog, no request.
What you've never had you never miss!
Ecosse
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Post by Ecosse »

sparkJS wrote:If that is the case then I'd always expect to be able to open the back door before I go to bed to let my dog do its business. I'll always pick up (next morning probably).
While dog wee isn't a big issue, as a mum of 3 boys, who are always searching for bugs and beasties in the undergrowth, I'm afraid I find even the idea of dog poo residue repulsive and it would ruin my holiday, should I suspect any in the holiday rental I was in. It would put me on edge... picking up bugs is fine, fear that the boys might pick up Toxacaria because someone hasn't wormed their dog (and you really don't know if the owner has been responsible) is horrible.

We have a lot of dogs stay in our gite/b&b... it is slightly different to a holiday let as people arriving know the are sharing gîte with both us and strangers... but while we welcome dogs, they must do their business elsewhere. On the odd occasion a dog has been caught short, it's bleach and the hose: I can't risk any of my guests, or children, contracting Toxacaria.

And yes, your holiday let, your rules, Clarisse !
Martha
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Post by Martha »

"[on holiday] I like to be lazy and letting the dog out for a quick wee should be possible"

I think this is the exact point, very well put. It's not an unreasonable thing to want to do. Your holiday, your choice. But not wanting pee stains from leg cocking on garden furniture, white walls and plant pots etc, or leftover dog mess in the grass where children will be running barefoot next week is equally reasonable, and again that's the nice thing about having choice.

"I think there is a difference to places that are friendly to dogs and ones that tolerate them"
Definitely. I don't mind this though. I appreciate being able to go somewhere nice with my dog and lots of those places have some restrictions.

I always ask about rules before I book, after a lousy experience at a Novotel in Le Touquet where they accepted dogs for a charge, checked us in, took our dinner reservations, but when we showed up to eat at 9 pm, told us we couldn't take her in either the restaurant or bar areas, they wouldn't serve us anywhere else in the hotel, and wouldn't let her stay in the room on her own without a crate. Suggestions for what to do at 9pm on a Monday night were met with a shrug. Information on booking or check in would have been great! Dreadful service and I did complain, not about the rules but about the lack of information.*
So I have a bit of sympathy for those who planned a nice lazy holiday (especially those with early rising dogs) and then find that isn't what they are going to get.

It really does need to be crystal clear so that dog owners can decide whether the place suits them or not, so definitely update this on all your booking sites. I can understand that people might not be happy when they find this out on arrival.

Worth noting that this is totally normal practice on campsites with dogs - they accept that of course sometimes accidents happen, but you are asked to take your dog outside or to a specified area to do its business.


My own dog rules are pretty extensive actually as we are not a dog friendly property at all, in fact I say it's most unsuitable as we have no fence and a lot of hazards. In my view the dog mess problem is just not solvable in a garden this big and wild, so I don't take them in the summer holiday weeks when families are here. We take one or two a year though, and no problems so far. As long as everything is clear up front, it's fine. My conditions and reasoning here:
http://www.chaletlaforet.com/booking/do-you-accept-dogs

At the moment I do think there may be problems as your conditions aren't clear before booking, but that's easily remedied.

*We ended up eating at the Buffalo Grill, which had exactly one item on the menu without meat for me! Still, they were hospitable, dog-friendly...and open!
Chalet la Foret, Chamonix
sparkJS
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Post by sparkJS »

I've always been interested in the (potential) myth of toxocariasis as it is used a hell of a lot in respect of dogs and children. It's as if there is an eperdemic.

There have been incredibly few diagnosis of toxocariasis but the recommendation for children (and adults) is to wash your hands especially after planting your fingers into soil. Which i guess is normal hygiene.

And the main point is that it comes from dogs, cats and foxes. We have foxes and the odd cat but I genuinely cannot control them with instructions to not exercise in our garden so we must all take some collective responsibility.
MG
Ecosse
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Post by Ecosse »

sparkJS wrote:
There have been incredibly few diagnosis of toxocariasis but the recommendation for children (and adults) is to wash your hands especially after planting your fingers into soil. Which i guess is normal hygiene.
Unfortunately (and believe you me, I try very hard!) it is virtually impossible to get a young child to wash their hands every time they come in contact with soil. They don't get it and don't care... hands go from soil to mouth to nose to mouth and so on, usually out of sight of any parent. Under 3s are the worst: at our local parents and tots group, a dog got into the garden unbeknownst to any of us until one small boy (thankfully not one of mine, this time) picked the turd up and squeezed it thoughtfully through his fingers.

It's a basic hygiene issue and I see no problem in places marketing themselves as dog friendly but with toileting rules. Even if fingers in mouths isn't an issue, who wants to sit on the grass only to find their clothes stinking of dog poo residue?

We market our place as being both pet and child friendly... and I don't allow the kids to defecate on our terrasse, either :wink:
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