Airbnb collecting tax sejour

OTA = Online Travel Agency, which means those sites that sell the booking and take the payment for you.
Frenchlady
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Airbnb collecting tax sejour

Post by Frenchlady »

Just had an e-mail from Airbnb informing us that from 1st July they will be collecting the tax sejour from guests. They will be paying this to our community at the beginning of the following year. This now gives me a headache. Our community sends us a bill (on the basis that we are full for July and August - which is another bone of contention I will not go into here) - this bill has to be paid by the end of October or court action is threatened. if I pay the bill in full they will then get the tax from Airbnb on those guests again at the beginning of the year, thereby receiving the tax twice. If I deduct any tax from Airbnb guests in my payment in October the commune will say I have not paid in full and probably threaten court action. I can understand that this is a way of ensuring taxes are collected and paid, but in our commune it is not that simple. Just another way the OTA's are taking over your business and giving me more stress.
jafa
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Post by jafa »

Then ask them for things like their Liability Insurance that they cover being a landlord etc etc. With your details noted. Give them as much admin headaches that you can.

Ask them to give you account details etc that they will be paying it under.

The more info you can legally ask for they more they will soon back down when they realise they aint what they think they are.

Ask for an undertaking I writing that they are accepting responsibility for all the debts it will occur.

They aren't responsible, and they wont accept that fact.
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Post by CSE »

Just another way the OTA's are taking over your business and giving me more stress.
Sorry to say you have that wrong. It is the French authorities who have done this and it is not only AirBnB.
https://www.french-property.com/news/fr ... urist_tax/
Of greater impact has been the new framework in place for holiday rental websites, such as Airbnb and Abritel, who have been given the power to collect the tax on behalf of their clients.
http://www.riviera-press.fr/insider/con ... -de-sejour
“Following my repeated demands to the French government, I am happy to say that we have succeeded in ensuring that Airbnb, the world’s first online community platform that allows holidaymakers to rent a property directly from the owner, will automatically collect the taxe de sejour from 1st August 2016,” says Cannes Mayor David Lisnard,......
Never try to out-stubborn your guests.
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Post by Dusty »

So we now have to remove ABB people from our calculations on how much taxe to pay and if the others go the same we will have to remove theirs as well, what a nightmare, since when did holiday listing sites become tax collectors? I have zero confidence they will get it right and whose problem will that be?
Frenchlady
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Post by Frenchlady »

Just had a reply from Airbnb and the person replying has not even read the issues I have raised, just told me what I already know, that the tax is being collected from July:

Thank you for contacting us, I am Kamel from the Airbnb team.

After investigation, I can assure you that the local tax ( taxe de sejour ) is not, by any means collected by Airbnb on your behalf, at the moment.

The collection will start in July, which means that you are due to collect the tax yourself for every reservation created prior this month.

Airbnb will collect and remit the tax to the municipality for every reservation CREATED after the 1st of July thus ending your obligation to collect the tax, at the regular rate of " tarif meublé non classé ".

I hope I was able to clarify the situation, and if you need more precision, please do not hesitate to reply to this message.

I have now sent this reply which I want answers to:

you have obviously not read any of the points or issues I raised. I am perfectly aware that you will start collecting the tax sejour from 1st July. Please read my original post. My commune expect me to pay all tax sejour taken for July and August as they now operate on the presumption that we will be full for 60 days (a bone of contention I have with them - they are not interested in what tax we collect outside of these months). They send me a bill in October and this has to be paid to them by the end of October or we are threatened with court action. If I deduct the tax (if any) from my Airbnb guests this will look like I have paid a shortfall and they can take me to court. If I pay the whole bill in full and you then pay them the tax you have taken from Airbnb guests, it willresult in the Commune receiving the tax twice (and I am out of pocket having already paid it to them). Also you have not answered my questions, I want to know who you are going to pay this money to in my commune - tell me the name of the regime. I need to know it will be the same as me otherwise nothing will tie up. What proof will you send to me that this has been paid, plus a receipt to say it has been received? Do the commune know that you will not be paying the tax taken until the following year, when their deadline in end of October? I do not think you understand how the communes collect taxes as it differs in many regions of France. This will not just affect me but all the other properties on your site within our area. I await your reply with interest.
Frenchlady
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Post by Frenchlady »

Quote casasantoestevo Sorry to say you have that wrong. It is the French authorities who have done this and it is not only AirBnB.

Sorry casasantoestevo but you also have it wrong as at the bottom of the article quoted is says:
Landlords marketing their properties through such sites are required to either authorise the site to collect the tax on their behalf, or to pay the tax themselves. Airbnb now make the charge compulsory as part of their booking procedures.

So it is Airbnb who have made it compulsory. I have had no choice in giving them authorisation.
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Post by CSE »

You have taken that quote out of context.
Have you read about that "Paris" has isued a new law? le projet de loi Elan (évolution du logement, de l'aménagement et du numérique).

http://www.lepoint.fr/politique/logemen ... 836_20.php

Besides,as previously written it is not only ABnB that are being made to be a tax collector.
https://aide.abritel.fr/articles/En-Fra ... -des-taxes
Never try to out-stubborn your guests.
Frenchlady
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Post by Frenchlady »

The saga continues. After telling me that they will be paying the tax taken from my guests to my "municipality" they have now replied with this:

I don't have any data on the department responsible for the collect of this tax in .............,

Also they just do not get it that our commune charges us on the assumption that we will be full 60 days for July & August - no ifs or buts. They have no idea how many guests are from Airbnb (if any) so cannot and will not deduct any amount from the invoice they will send me in October. With the following response Aibnb just do not get this:

I cannot advise you on tax ground to pay or hold back the amount that will be potentially requested by the municipality, but I can tell you that it is not in their best interest in a legal point of view to claim twice the amount of the tax de sejour.

This is not my doing as I have been given no choice. They want to take the tax collection of this tax into their hands then they are going to have to sort this out.
limousin-cottage
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Post by limousin-cottage »

Taxe de sejour does not apply to all regions of France.
Frenchlady
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Post by Frenchlady »

Exactly my point. They have taken this on without understanding how it works. People need to check that they are not collecting tax sejour from guests who do not have to pay it. They have now gone quiet on me because they simply do not understand my concerns or questions, but I will not give up. Also going to take on the commune. How do they expect me to pay on the theory that I will be full for 60 nights. Never full in July and sometimes August. B&B's are not like gites. Last year we were out of pocket paying the bill they demanded. This year will be even worse because the bookings are just not coming in for either July or August. The tax is meant to be paid by the guest not out of our already diminished earnings. Rant over for now!!!!
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Post by limousin-cottage »

https://www.legalplace.fr/guides/taxe-s ... isonniere/

Maybe this will clarify, French Lady?

In any case, surely if your guests book through Airbnb, who collect the Taxe from the guest directly, then you don't have to collect it yourself for that guest? Or am I missing something here?
Frenchlady
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Post by Frenchlady »

Hello limousin-cottage - yes our commune - since 2017 - now send us a bill in October which is presuming we have been full for 60 days. There are no ifs or buts that is what they expect. They are not interested in months either side of those. They think this is fair. We are never completely full in July or August. Last year therefore we paid the bill but some of it came out of our pocket because we had not taken the amount of money they were asking for ... even if we had included bookings outside these months. This year as I say it will be worse because of the lack of bookings. Therefore the point is if I deduct any taxes Airbnb have taken the Authority could accuse me of not paying in full (they threaten court action) They require the payment at the end of October. Airbnb are not paying the taxes to the Authority until beginning of the following year .. and seems they do not even know who they are paying them to!! It is total confusion and not necessary.
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Post by CSE »

But it is national law that portals will take this money, even the links given by LC state that.
If there is now a dog's dinner of a situation, then it is the local commune for not charging you correctly in the first place.
Never try to out-stubborn your guests.
limousin-cottage
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Post by limousin-cottage »

Frenchlady wrote:Hello limousin-cottage - yes our commune - since 2017 - now send us a bill in October which is presuming we have been full for 60 days. There are no ifs or buts that is what they expect. They are not interested in months either side of those. They think this is fair. We are never completely full in July or August. Last year therefore we paid the bill but some of it came out of our pocket because we had not taken the amount of money they were asking for ... even if we had included bookings outside these months. This year as I say it will be worse because of the lack of bookings. Therefore the point is if I deduct any taxes Airbnb have taken the Authority could accuse me of not paying in full (they threaten court action) They require the payment at the end of October. Airbnb are not paying the taxes to the Authority until beginning of the following year .. and seems they do not even know who they are paying them to!! It is total confusion and not necessary.
Attention ! La loi du 28 décembre 2017 de finances rectificative pour 2017 prévoit une taxe de séjour pour les locations saisonnières effectuées via des plateformes en ligne (ex : Airbnb, Abritel). Cette obligation est valable à partir du 1er janvier 2019.

According to this site, AirBnb won't begin collecting the taxe direct until January 2019, so presumably your commune is correct in billing you for 2018? Are they charging correctly for your type of business? I agree it is very confusing! If they start charging me from next year it will be totally incorrect, as my commune don't even collect Taxe de Sejour. Sorting that one out is going to be interesting.
limousin-cottage
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Post by limousin-cottage »

limousin-cottage wrote:
Frenchlady wrote:Hello limousin-cottage - yes our commune - since 2017 - now send us a bill in October which is presuming we have been full for 60 days. There are no ifs or buts that is what they expect. They are not interested in months either side of those. They think this is fair. We are never completely full in July or August. Last year therefore we paid the bill but some of it came out of our pocket because we had not taken the amount of money they were asking for ... even if we had included bookings outside these months. This year as I say it will be worse because of the lack of bookings. Therefore the point is if I deduct any taxes Airbnb have taken the Authority could accuse me of not paying in full (they threaten court action) They require the payment at the end of October. Airbnb are not paying the taxes to the Authority until beginning of the following year .. and seems they do not even know who they are paying them to!! It is total confusion and not necessary.
Attention ! La loi du 28 décembre 2017 de finances rectificative pour 2017 prévoit une taxe de séjour pour les locations saisonnières effectuées via des plateformes en ligne (ex : Airbnb, Abritel). Cette obligation est valable à partir du 1er janvier 2019.

According to this site, AirBnb won't begin collecting the taxe direct until January 2019, so presumably your commune is correct in billing you for 2018? Are they charging correctly for your type of business? I agree it is very confusing! If they start charging me from next year it will be totally incorrect, as my commune don't even collect Taxe de Sejour. Sorting that one out is going to be interesting. I presume the commune are charging you the correct amount per person? I can't see your link, so I don't know what your capacity is? If they are charging incorrectly, then yes, you need to pay the bill in October, as you said, but there must be a way to appeal against the amount if it is not correct.
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