fraudulent subletting

Post scam emails to warn other rental owners, or if you are not sure if an enquiry is genuine, put it up here and see what others think.
aloneifly
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fraudulent subletting

Post by aloneifly »

I let my flat out as a holiday home. I had a booking last Sunday to this Saturday.
It was a direct booking from my own website. All seemed ok. The money was paid by stripe by card and I met one of the 2 men listed on the booking and showed him round and left him to it.
This morning Stripe alerted me to a dispute with the payment and they werent gong to pay me.
So I went round to the flat only to find a young Romanian couple there I had never seen before.
Long story short she had seen the flat advertised on gumtree and viewed it and signed a tenancy agreement and handed over £1400 in cash thinking she had a year long lease.

So I have reported the fraud to police - lot of good that will do.
But how do I go from here?

Fortunately the couple realise I am a victim too but Im worried they may not move out.
Ive given them 2 days till my next let to find somewhere but of course now they have lost a sizeable amount of money.
I have said I will refund them half of what they lose but where do I stand if they dont move out Sunday

Anyone heard of such a scam?
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apexblue
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Post by apexblue »

Does your insurance cover you for this? Nightmare for you.
It is better to remain quiet and have one think you are stupid, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt....

The biggest mistake we make in life is thinking we have time.
aloneifly
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Post by aloneifly »

no insurance is contents and buildings only - no legal expenses cover
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apexblue
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Post by apexblue »

Management Company of flat may help if you have one?
It is better to remain quiet and have one think you are stupid, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt....

The biggest mistake we make in life is thinking we have time.
aloneifly
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Post by aloneifly »

Its my own flat which I own and manage
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apexblue
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Post by apexblue »

Who manages the block?

Is tenant reporting this to police?
It is better to remain quiet and have one think you are stupid, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt....

The biggest mistake we make in life is thinking we have time.
aloneifly
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Post by aloneifly »

we have reported to police but they say its a civil matter between me and the "tenants" and all |I can do is ask them to leave.
Its not a block - it is a house converted into two and I own and manage the flat in question.

We have offered the people who have been defrauded half of what they have lost if they move out before my next let in 2 days.
At the moment they have agreed to that so hopefully i will get my flat back and have to chalk it up to experience and ask for id when anyone arrives as a holiday let
AndrewH
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Post by AndrewH »

What a nightmare for you, aloneifly. You have my sympathies. I think you will need some legal support and advice if the Romanians don't move out on the date they agreed.

This is a lesson that it is wise to make sure that the people, before they enter the property, are indeed the holidaymakers with whom one has contracted.
Zingara
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Post by Zingara »

But he did, Andrew: " I met one of the 2 men listed on the booking and showed him round and left him to it."....sounds like a fairly standard 'meet-and-greet'?

Citizen's Advice Bureau? Do you have legal cover if you have ?Which membership ? Solicitor...

But all that takes time, which you haven't got...hopefully, they'll accept your offer (and maybe that's part of the scam...?)

Can you get a copy of the rental agreement before this couple leave? It may help you convince Stripe not to release the funds to the scammers, assuming it's them raising the dispute.
zebedee
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Post by zebedee »

This is a terrible situation and I really feel for you.

Not wanting to make anything worse, is it possible that the couple in residence are also part of the scam? Your paying them to leave adds to their funds (I’m not being critical of you, I would want them out ASAP).
The response from the police is not adequate -this is fraud and clearly a crime, not a civil matter at all. Sometimes it depends upon who you speak to in the force, and those in more specialist roles may respond differently.

Do you have the usual holiday property information around? Eg handbook, tourist information, notices on boards? Are they still there??
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apexblue
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Post by apexblue »

and maybe that's part of the scam...?)
Ditto
It is better to remain quiet and have one think you are stupid, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt....

The biggest mistake we make in life is thinking we have time.
COYS
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Post by COYS »

apexblue wrote:
and maybe that's part of the scam...?)
Ditto
Pay them to leave? Why always the bleeding heart approach, have we all gone mad? IF (that's a very big if) they've been misled, then I'm sorry but that is very much their problem & more money changing hands in dubious circumstances is only going to make a bad situation even worse.
Simply turn up promptly on departure day & make sure that they leave, no if's, no but's & definitely no cash.
This time next year Rodney, we'll be millionaires.
AndrewH
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Post by AndrewH »

Reading the posts above, Zingara is right that this seemed like an ordinary 'meet and greet', but it was with a couple of scammers. Did they have the Romanians waiting in the wings ready to move in and were they innocents or were they part of the fraud (which it surely is and it is criminal)?

Who first suggested that a payment be made for the Romanian "tenants" to move out early? If it came from the Romanians then IMO they are strong to contenders to be part of the conspiracy.
newtimber
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Post by newtimber »

COYS wrote: Pay them to leave? Why always the bleeding heart approach, have we all gone mad? IF (that's a very big if) they've been misled, then I'm sorry but that is very much their problem & more money changing hands in dubious circumstances is only going to make a bad situation even worse.
Simply turn up promptly on departure day & make sure that they leave, no if's, no but's & definitely no cash.
I'm afraid I have to agree with COYS but actually it's safer to turn them out straight away as they haven't agreed to your terms and conditions and haven't paid you anything either. You don't have any agreement with them so the "departure date" agreed with the scammers is irrelevant. You are merely giving them time to change the locks and say that you let them the place on a permanent let. Of course if they pay you and agree to your terms and conditions for a holiday stay, then they could stay till the departure date.
Igor
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Post by Igor »

As well as reporting to the Police, I think you need to report it to ActionFraud.

Police don't like fraud because it takes a huge investigative resource. ActionFraud is also police, but it coordinates reports of fraud and identifies patterns. Then they go after the fraudsters who are causing the most grief.

I don't really see what else you could have done to prevent this. It's horrifying.
Igor lives in Fort StaySavr, a secret location high in the mountains
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