fraudulent subletting

Post scam emails to warn other rental owners, or if you are not sure if an enquiry is genuine, put it up here and see what others think.
AndrewH
Posts: 1499
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 1:17 pm
Location: Kefalonia, Greece
Contact:

Post by AndrewH »

Igor wrote:As well as reporting to the Police, I think you need to report it to ActionFraud.
Regarding advice given by Action Fraud to unsuspecting students and other renters:
https://www.scotsman.com/read-this/stud ... thousands/

If those unspeakable men (or perhaps just one man - the other being an invention) have raised an issue with Stripe requiring a repayment of money, then this could lead to the naming of a bank account where money should be repaid, and in turn to the name and address of the owner of that account.
newtimber
Posts: 1945
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2012 5:57 pm
Location: Brighton
Contact:

Post by newtimber »

AndrewH wrote: If those unspeakable men (or perhaps just one man - the other being an invention) have raised an issue with Stripe requiring a repayment of money, then this could lead to the naming of a bank account where money should be repaid, and in turn to the name and address of the owner of that account.
I expect the card details used were stolen and knowing the name and address of the card owner is of no use.

Looking at Stripe's website, they don't insist on 3-D secure or Verified to Visa instead relying on the CSV and address validation. I'm sure there are places on the dark web where these stolen card details are readily available. If you have your own merchant card account, the card issuer will take the hit for "stolen cards" if the card has been validated using 3-D secure.
AndrewH
Posts: 1499
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 1:17 pm
Location: Kefalonia, Greece
Contact:

Post by AndrewH »

newtimber wrote:I expect the card details used were stolen and knowing the name and address of the card owner is of no use.
newtimber, it wasn't the name and address of a cardholder (probably a stolen card as you say) which I was thinking of. It was police entrapment I had in mind with the cooperation of Stripe. If the only way of receiving a "repayment" from Stripe was through a bank account, a greedy criminal might just fall for it and open one. No such "repayment" would be made, of course.

In my own experience, I have known the police obtaining even a murder confession using a sting operation.
aloneifly
Posts: 70
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:20 pm
Location: Glasgow
Contact:

Post by aloneifly »

Thanks for the replies. Sorry I havent been back on but it has been very stressful.
it appears the card was fraudulent - i can see now from stripe they tried 3 cards before one worked. I checked it when it went through but its only days later that the card owner says to hios bank - whats this I didnt book accommodation. A US bank card was used.

Yes I know the would be tenants could be in on it. But I cant see how that would work. If they were working for the fraudsters then all that would be gained would be the payout I offered - surely too little for all that effort. Much easier to sublet it as they did. In fact the Romanians have also been to the police so I really don think they are in on it. They must be very good actors if so. They were clearly devasted.
It was me who offered the bung as a desperate measure to ensure they could move on and not leave me with a bigger headache. They did indeed move on the day and time they said and cleaned the place before they left. I really dont think they were in on it.
Police so far not been in touch after initial statement. I think they dont have enough resources to follow this through.
They moved everything out that made it look like a holiday let - I have found a lot of stuff in the loft. Bizarrely the only thing missing is my router.
I will need to have more stringent checks and put it down to experience. its cost over a grand but I have my flat back and the bookings that are currently booked dont need cancelling which would have been a lot of money.
I had a new visitor today and he doesnt suspect a thing - we worked so hard to get it back and ready for his visit. (he is a repeat visitor so I m safe - for now!)
Boomhulay
Posts: 36
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 3:03 pm
Location: London
Contact:

Post by Boomhulay »

So sorry you’ve been through that, but please, if you haven’t already, change the locks too. The scammers can find your calendar and might try the same thing again if they know it’s empty!

I had a close call once when someone tried to book a weekend and I found him on twitter telling all his ‘crew’ that he’d found a great crib for their next party! Now that the listing sites are hiding things like email addresses, I live in dread of it happening again and not being able to suss it out beforehand!
e-richard
Posts: 5008
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 11:33 am
Location: Algarve, Portugal
Contact:

Post by e-richard »

Well done aloneifly. Despite the obvious stress, it sounds like you eventually came through OK and one must also feel sorry for the Romanian guests.

I am intrigued, however, what additional "stringent checks" you have in mind to prevent a repeat?
** Richard
PIMS: Holiday Rental Management system
They say we learn from our mistakes. That makes me a genius !
User avatar
apexblue
Posts: 2249
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2008 6:58 pm
Location: UK

Post by apexblue »

...and get legal cover added.
It is better to remain quiet and have one think you are stupid, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt....

The biggest mistake we make in life is thinking we have time.
rosebud
Posts: 625
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:24 pm
Location: Steyning, West Sussex

Post by rosebud »

Glad to hear you were able to resolve the situation Aloneifly... What a difficult one..

Should one be wary of using Wave/ Stripe, I wonder?
aloneifly
Posts: 70
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:20 pm
Location: Glasgow
Contact:

Post by aloneifly »

Update-
Re more stringent checks.
I guess if the booking comes via airbnb or Homeaway then the id checks have already been done and there is more chance of things not going wrong? This booking was direct from my own website so I hope to encourage future guests who book direct to show me photo id when they arrive.
Re Stripe - Unlikely I will recover the disputed payment and they are a necessary payment provider when you need payments made by card so I dont think there is much i can do there.

Police now involved a bit more. The fraudster seems to have left a phone behind (burner of course) in a local hotel he stayed in (so probably never stayed overnight in my place). He/they didnt pay hotel bill of £600 so now police have the phone and have a bit more to go on so have given it a crime reference - hooray. Early days in their investigation but we have given them a statement and will continue to co operate in a bid that they catch them. The phone was actually retrieved by the Romanian couple who had been ringing it and someone at the hotel answered it so they went to hotel and somehow got the phone and handed it in to police. They were genuinely pleased that they had managed this and are thinking that they may eventually get their cash back but of course its unlikely.
But hopefully their actions suggest they were not a part of this scam.

Did I say that I found all the missing items (except for the router) in the apartment loft.

So lock changed and I hope time to learn from it and move on
newtimber
Posts: 1945
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2012 5:57 pm
Location: Brighton
Contact:

Post by newtimber »

aloneifly wrote:Update-

Re Stripe - Unlikely I will recover the disputed payment and they are a necessary payment provider when you need payments made by card so I dont think there is much i can do there.
There are other providers I'm sure that do provide more checks. If you have a merchant account yourself for example, you can protect yourself against most card fraud where the card has been stolen.
jafa
Posts: 88
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2017 2:08 pm
Location: Kirchberg in tirol
Contact:

Post by jafa »

I guess if the booking comes via airbnb or Homeaway then the id checks have already been done and there is more chance of things not going wrong?

Are you under the impression that HA check all the prospective guests before they send you an anonomous request. Ive never heard that one before. They certainly have never tried to appease my displeasure at having to accept a reservation request within 24 hours or get dropped down the viewing list as I haven't a clue who Im accepting to stay in my property. That's a new one
Jafa
COYS
Posts: 795
Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2015 1:24 pm
Location: Greek Islands

Post by COYS »

I'm firmly with jafa on this one.
Relying on an OTA to security check for you? They want a booking, any booking, anonymous or otherwise & they want it right now, regardless. You don't seriously think they care who from? If things do go wrong it will be strictly your problem (smallprint, blah, blah, blah) & I fear that with us all being led by the nose, incidents such as the OP has suffered may well increase & develop.
This time next year Rodney, we'll be millionaires.
AndrewH
Posts: 1499
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 1:17 pm
Location: Kefalonia, Greece
Contact:

Post by AndrewH »

https://www.glasgowlive.co.uk/news/glas ... y-11706013

I remember reading about this case. The fraudster, who was caught in the act and arrested, had an accomplice waiting for her in a car down in the street. He drove off when he realized things had gone badly wrong, never to be traced.
User avatar
apexblue
Posts: 2249
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2008 6:58 pm
Location: UK

Post by apexblue »

Disagree Coys. ABB and OD recently cancelled a booking from same guest when checks were done.
It is better to remain quiet and have one think you are stupid, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt....

The biggest mistake we make in life is thinking we have time.
jafa
Posts: 88
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2017 2:08 pm
Location: Kirchberg in tirol
Contact:

Post by jafa »

apexblue wrote:Disagree Coys. ABB and OD recently cancelled a booking from same guest when checks were done.
Very interested to know what checks they were, other than if the client was paying them a fee and the payment bounced. Then I could see them getting involved, otherwise they are dictating who you as an owner can accept into your property. We all have different levels of acceptance, nowhere have HA asked me to clarify mine
Jafa
Post Reply