Taxe de Sejour from 2019 - surely not €300+?

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Emmy
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Taxe de Sejour from 2019 - surely not €300+?

Post by Emmy »

I've been reading a thread about Taxe de Sejour on a Facebook page. The discussion concerns the new way they're going to be calculating this tax from Jan 2019. The sums quoted/suggested vary between worrying and criminal...depending on how you do the sums. Can anyone clarify this please? We're just setting our 2019 prices and want to make sure we're not charging too little to cover everything.

The rates quoted seem to be something like 5% of the nightly rate per adult. I don't think children are charged but in setting the price for a gite for 6 people I need to make sure I can cover this tax if all 6 occupants are adults.
Example:
Gite €1050 per week.
That's a nightly rate of €150
5% of this is €7.50
x 7 (nights) = €52.50, PER ADULT...? So if 6 adults are in, that's €315 before I pay laundry bill, utilities, cotisations.....
Or, is this €52.50 per gite? Still very high in my opinion.

I wouldn't mind but I don't know why we're classed as a tourist area!

It would be good to find out what you've heard in your various departments - I'm in 16.
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Moliere
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Post by Moliere »

Maybe they mean 5% of the per person nightly rate. So in your case, €150 divided by 6 persons = €25. 5% of €25 = €1.25 per person per night, which at least seems more in line with usual practice and is a bit ore democratic than a flat rate.

Hope so anyway.
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Dusty
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Post by Dusty »

As far as I know, and I've heard nothing else to the contrary, most places will continue to charge TdS on a per person (adult) per night basis, the amount depending on the type/rating of the property, nothing related to price at all.

I would suggest you talk to your local tourist office to/Mairie to clarify any misunderstanding.
petitbois
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Post by petitbois »

the new rate is for unclassified properties, if you have a classification, then rate stays the same, been brought in to encourage eveyone to be classified
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oasiscouple
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Post by oasiscouple »

But surely the tds is supposed to be paid by the guest on arrival or departure, not by the owner so why would it affect your rental pricing? To me it is a question of informing the guests in your conditions.

Also, the rate varies enormously from commune to commune set either by the Mairie or, (in our area), by the local tourist office. Some communes don't charge at all.

Before worrying about it I would rather know by an official announcement rather than a Facebook page.
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petitbois
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Post by petitbois »

here in dept 16 there was a meeting at various tourist offices in June when the changes were announced. Effective from January 2019
farley
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Post by farley »

Well, we haven’t been informed of any changes . Why have they not sent everyone an email explaining the new changes for 2019?

We have always paid TDS for our guests but if it increases alarming ( as per Emmys example) we will have to charge guests. I cannot see how that’s going to help tourism in our rural ( non touristy ) corner of France🙁
GillianF
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Post by GillianF »

We've always paid the tds for our guests as it is just too complicated to calculate it for them and ask them to pay it separately. It makes our rental rate seem higher than it is and looks like an 'extra' which guests don't like.

I would never rely on my local tourist office, commune or Mairie to give me any information about anything - they never have yet!!
Dusty
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Post by Dusty »

GillianF wrote: I would never rely on my local tourist office, commune or Mairie to give me any information about anything - they never have yet!!
Agreed, although they are always keen to tell us how much their tds is :)
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oasiscouple
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Post by oasiscouple »

Just been talking to someone at « l'assistance technique hébergeurs » on 02 56 66 20 05 (or you can email them at support-taxedesejour@3douest.com ) and it seems to be true that the system will change in 2019 for non classified meublé de tourisme for the whole of France.

The rate will only be known after 1 October 2018 once decided by each commune or tourist area, the rate being between 1% and 5% of the daily rate divided by the number of persons staying (including children) but then applied only to each adult per night. We do B&B in one establishment and weekly lettings in another so until we know what the percentage will be in October, we won’t know the amount of taxe de sejour.

If it is 1%, it will be much less than the 2018 rate but if it is 5% it will be a little more. The other complication will be that it will vary according to your seasonal rate, so lower in the low season and higher in the high season. The person I spoke to agreed it will be complicated (to say the least) to work out.

We make it clear in our T&Cs that the tds is imposed on them and not on us and must be paid to us as collectors for the commune or tourist office either on arrival or departure and we give them a receipt
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Dusty
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Post by Dusty »

Jeez, they do like to make our lives complicated don't they, what was wrong with the old system, everyone understands it, it's easy understand and administer and reconciliation is simple.
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bornintheuk
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Post by bornintheuk »

Dusty wrote:Jeez, they do like to make our lives complicated don't they, what was wrong with the old system, everyone understands it, it's easy understand and administer and reconciliation is simple.
Its what fonctionaires do, same as company managers, they have never heard of "If it ain't broke don't fix it"
Jobsworths mainly.
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GillianF
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Post by GillianF »

Up until a few years ago we paid (from the rental income) the tds. In the Autumn I was sent a form by the tourist office and filled in how many guests with a breakdown of adults, children and babies. I then had to work out the tds per adult per night, a lower rate per child (under 13) per night and nothing for under 2s. A bit tedious but then I added it up and came to a sum to pay.

A couple of years ago I had to declare how many we slept and how many weeks we were open. The tourist office calculated full occupancy and applied the tds and sent me the bill.

This 'new' system seems to be going back to something like the 'old' system.

I know that if I question the tourist office about this they will say that, of course, it isn't me who pays the tds but the guest. The tourist office seems unable to grasp the simple fact that if I raise my prices to cover the tds then I will pay a high percentage per head of the higher price and, possibly, look more expensive than the other gites etc. I compete with for business. If I advertise my prices NOT including tds and the guest pays that separately/additionally to me it will be seen, by the guest, as an "extra" - and guests don't like "extras".
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oasiscouple
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Post by oasiscouple »

GillianF wrote:If I advertise my prices NOT including tds and the guest pays that separately/additionally to me it will be seen, by the guest, as an "extra" - and guests don't like "extras".
I don't see that it would be considered an "extra" if your guest has been informed in advance, as we do, that it is a legal requirement. When we travel around France staying in hotels or B&Bs we know it will be payable outside the nightly price and I would have thought anyone coming on holiday regularly to France would know that also.
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Emmy
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Post by Emmy »

Thanks for all the replies - it's interesting to read other people's points of views. Thanks also for the contact details Oasis couple.

It sounds as if my rough calculation at 5% of around €50 (if 6 adults) per week is about right - we're not classified.

I'd rather advertise the price the guests will pay from the start, and whether I include the TdS in our stated price or quote it at the outset as an extra I'm not sure. On Chez Nous and HFD there's no space to put this extra under the "prices" section and I've never read it in anyone else's descriptions! Something else for me to ponder, I suppose.
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