Smart Home Technology

Agencies and other headaches, keys and cleaners, running costs and contracts...in short, all the things we spend so much of our time doing behind the scenes.<br>
benji87
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Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 4:51 pm

Smart Home Technology

Post by benji87 »

Hi all,

This is my first thread here and I'm hoping you can all share with me your thoughts on smart home tech for your rental properties. I have family members who own holiday homes and we often stay in rental properties when we go away. I have a keen interest in smart home tech and have been considering for some time now to start a business that provides smart home installs for rental properties. Having looked around the forums I can see a lot of people are using smart thermostats and locks to help them manage their properties which is great to see.

Over the last few months I have been researching and working on creating prototype software for managing a rental property which would do some of the following
  • Integrate with your availability calendar via homeaway, airbnb etc to know when guests are arriving
    Automatically issue guests with an access code for the duration of their stay which would allow them to access the property via a provided smartlock
    Automatically issue cleaners / maintenance with temp access codes
    Send automated checkin/checkout sms messages to guests
    Monitor the property when it's vacant for unexpected movement, rise in temperature or water ingress
    Monitor energy usage to allow for the potential of pay-as-you-go usage during guests stay
    Integration with existing smart tech such as thermostats and lighting
These are just some of the features I'm working on. I'm keen to gather your thoughts on whether or not you'd like a system like this or not? What would be your main reservations in using software to manage your rental property?
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GRL
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Post by GRL »

Honest first thought - no thanks. Anything that says "automated" is a complete turn off for me as I pride myself in the personal touch that I can offer my guests. But I live on site and only have one property. Maybe those off site and with many properties may find it more useful.
GillianF
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Post by GillianF »

My first thought: Complicated and a lot to go wrong! Sorry!!
whirlybird
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Post by whirlybird »

I am agreeing with the above. I don't see the point of complicating things just for the sake of it.
But, if Mark Zuckerberg had said to me "I'm thinking of making a site where people can show you what they are having for dinner......and then other people can give them a thumbs up" I would have said "Don't be silly Mark" :roll:
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zebedee
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Post by zebedee »

Just a few queries....

I presume would would be looking for a monthly subscription???

(If so, as they say on Dragons Den, I’m out).

We still have to spend time monitoring application of the software, and dealing with guests who forget their codes, WiFi failures and software glitches. Etc etc Or do we need to programme the software regularly such as when a new booking comes in???

Also, why would we want a temporary access code for our cleaners??? They are our trusted eyes an ears.
ianh100
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Location: Sherborne Dorset

Post by ianh100 »

I have been using various home automation for over 20 years and when we got our first holiday rental I was all up for kitting it out with remote locks and other tech. I use it extensively at my main property.

We are remote managers so some of the things you suggest are what we wanted to do but I have found the technology is just not reliable enough. I originally used Z wave for heating and TRV control plus PIR for movement. This used Vera and then Fibaro controllers. I have now removed all of that and use HIVE for heating with a single PIR.

As for locks we still use a keysafe as none of the lock solutions were able to meet my technical requirements and look correct on a rural property. Also any solution must be absolutely locked down, you would not believe the way that holiday guests will meddle with technology, even and oven or washing machine are a struggle for many!

Perhaps your solution would be good in a city apartment but for remote management of a rural property KISS is the right solution (Keep it simple stupid).

As Zebedee said for the moment "I'm out"
COYS
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Post by COYS »

Coming from a “fossil” as my tech savvy offspring often refer to me I don't see too much wrong with the idea, but not so sure it is cut out for holiday rental world. As others have said there is always potential for system or software failure, wi-fi & power outages & the ever present fiddling guest & that would be an uneccessary risk for me in a busy season.
No system has ever been able to compete with my back up at a glance paper calendar, the key safe has lasted ten years & never caused an issue, the cleaners had their own keys. Anything else even slightly technical, the satellite tv for example still befuddles the majority of visitors. I'd forego smart tech for smart guests every time because 'simple' works.
My millenial heirs would disagree & maybe that is where a bigger future market lies?
Not for me but wishing you well in your new venture.
This time next year Rodney, we'll be millionaires.
zebedee
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Post by zebedee »

I'd forego smart tech for smart guests every time
Love it! :D :D

On thinking about this idea, is it similar to what is used on some American hotels? Where they know if guests are in their room or not??
It may be an idea more useful for hotels, B&B accommodation etc??
I don’t think any of us are trying to pour cold water on the idea, just speaking from personal preference.
Circé
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Post by Circé »

A system for managing bookings might be good for someone who has lots of rentals, but if you only have one or two properties why not just use a spreadsheet and a paper printout stuck on the wall?
Why would a cleaner need a temporary access code?
What if your guests don't own a smartphone?
What happens when there is no mobile signal at your holiday home, when either the network is down or there's just never any decent signal?
Your smart thingy sez 'there's lots of water in this empty property', will your gizmo then diagnose the problem, call out the relevant tradesmen and tell them where the electricity mains switch and water cut off points are?

Maybe I've been in the management business too long and/or I'm not tecchy enough, but IMHO KISS works and is a helluva lot cheaper. KISS has a human manager near the property holding a bunch of keys in one hand, a sink plunger in the other and a list of phone numbers of local tradesmen in their back pocket.
benji87
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Post by benji87 »

Thanks for everyone's thoughts it's really interesting to see and looks as if there is a lot more reservation about the idea than I anticipated but understand it's not going to be for everyone and some prefer to offer a more personal service. However the idea is geared more towards those that aren't local to their rental property.

To answer some of the questions and fears that some of you have...

The system would come with a 'hub' like Hive does and would require either a wifi connection or a mobile phone signal to function. Once setup it would be completely independent and wouldn't need any interaction from the hosts as it would monitor your availability calendar and automatically issue guests with access codes (they may forget but it would be in their phone messages / email the same as a keysafe code).

Guests wouldn't need to own a smartphone and they wouldn't need to access the system itself. The main interaction they would have with it is to enter the code on the lock to access the property.

If water was detected within the property then the system may not be able to diagnose the problem but what it could do is a) turn off the water supply b) alert the host/guests of the presence of water c) alert your preferred local plumber of the situation and issue them with a temp access code to assess the situation

Finally this system will be as stable as something like Hive but just more intelligent. It could work with your existing smart thermostats and turn on the heating an hour before guests arrive to warm the place up, limit the temperature during their stay depending on the outside temperature and ensure it's turned out once they've checked out.
zebedee
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Post by zebedee »

My availability calendar is changed when a deposit is paid. How would the system know that a balance payment had cleared?? we have had incidents of owners appearing to have received payments which are then withdrawn.
I would be uneasy at not being in control of a key safe number being issued (I am a remote owner).

I also find my guests are more responsible in the property because they have personal contact with me sometimes several times.
akwe-xavante
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Post by akwe-xavante »

Great idea in general but only if access is a direct one to a device at the property and not indirectly via a third party server or service. A system that's yours for life not on subscription and without the fear of a third party server, company or service going belly up or demanding more money in future when users become entirely dependant on such technology or and locking you out of your own property if you fail to pay up.

I live away and access to alter the heating "directly" would be great during cold weather negating the need to travel to alter the heating. Don't want to do this via a third party service or server. Direct access only for me.

Access to turn lights on and off randomly in winter when unoccupied would be great too or set several profiles to turn lights on and off at set times between certain hours differently each day.

Still looking for a traditional light switch that can also be accessed via the internet. A light switch that can be manually switched on and off in a traditional way (Not via a battery operated remote controll like a TV remote for example) and yet can be turned on and off via the internet too as required.

I understand that the company "Draytek" are currently developing a new router that will allow direct access to appliances within the property ALL in one black box...... Xdsl modem, ethernet switch and wireless AP with smart home technology built into one single device.... Your router.

Draytek kit is outstanding technology for the price and i hope they pull it off and market such a device ASAP. You'll be able to log into the router over the net and access all your smart home kit all in one place, no third party service or servers or additional boxes plugged in here and there in the home. The router will control the heating, the lighting, the radio, TV, the fridge indeed anything and everything ....... possibly.

Internet digital door locks... not for me, no way, not yet....

If such a system was 100000% foolproof and was endorsed by the police and insurance companies and insurance companies offered full cover, maybe even a discount then perhaps. Far too many what if's, buts and maybe's for me to trust such a system, could i trust an insurance company paying up in full when such a system failed or when the wrong people gained access to the proprty fraudulently in some way.
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Cymraes
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Post by Cymraes »

benji87 wrote: However the idea is geared more towards those that aren't local to their rental property.
OK - that's me then

benji87 wrote:

The system would come with a 'hub' like Hive does and would require either a wifi connection or a mobile phone signal to function. Once setup it would be completely independent and wouldn't need any interaction from the hosts as it would monitor your availability calendar and automatically issue guests with access codes (they may forget but it would be in their phone messages / email the same as a keysafe code).
Wifi in my rural area is slow and can be unreliable. After a severe storm last winter it was a couple of weeks before it was restored. Minor storms can take us offline for a few days. Even when it is working it isn't the greatest.

Likewise mobile signals. It's poor to non existent in many areas of rural Wales

benji87 wrote:
Guests wouldn't need to own a smartphone and they wouldn't need to access the system itself. The main interaction they would have with it is to enter the code on the lock to access the property.

I text mine a code just prior to arrival so they actually have it with them
benji87 wrote:
Finally this system will be as stable as something like Hive but just more intelligent. It could work with your existing smart thermostats and turn on the heating an hour before guests arrive to warm the place up, limit the temperature during their stay depending on the outside temperature and ensure it's turned out once they've checked out.
I need to heat my property 24/7/52 due to the age and location. If it drops below 10degrees it needs at least 48 hours to get comfortable again. My existing fairly smart thermostatic control deals with this perfectly well.

I'm another one then who really wouldn't have a lot of use for it. I already have booking software which keeps track of guests and syncs my booking calendars.

There are going to have to be significant improvements in the wifi provision locally for this to be of interest and I'd also be worried about whether the system was secure enough not to issue an access code to a hacker. Have you run this past any insurance companies to see whether they would offer cover to a cottage using this type of technology?
Circé
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Post by Circé »

benji87 wrote: The system would come with a 'hub' like Hive does and would require either a wifi connection or a mobile phone signal to function. Once setup it would be completely independent and wouldn't need any interaction from the hosts as it would monitor your availability calendar and automatically issue guests with access codes (they may forget but it would be in their phone messages / email the same as a keysafe code).
Thus all fails if there's no wifi or mobile signal so I wouldn't dream of trusting it where we are in rural France.
If water was detected within the property then the system may not be able to diagnose the problem but what it could do is a) turn off the water supply b) alert the host/guests of the presence of water c) alert your preferred local plumber of the situation and issue them with a temp access code to assess the situation
How does it turn the water off, and could you be sure that it does?
How would it contact an available plumber (never mind preferred, I'll take any decent plumber in August when half of them are on holiday)? And describe the scenario to him? And check what he's done?
Finally this system will be as stable as something like Hive but just more intelligent. It could work with your existing smart thermostats and turn on the heating an hour before guests arrive to warm the place up, limit the temperature during their stay depending on the outside temperature and ensure it's turned out once they've checked out.
Does it know how to light a wood burner?

What does it do about bee swarms or hornets nests? Go BEEP and panic?

The insurance aspect is interesting, and anyone using this sort of system would be well advised to discuss it with their insurers and get something in writing from them if they say 'ok'.

I see that what you are proposing could work to some extent in a modern unit in an urban environment, but the reality of unreliable electricity supply, mobile networks and wifi in rural areas would rule out a lot of the functions in these areas.
benji87
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Post by benji87 »

Does it know how to light a wood burner?

What does it do about bee swarms or hornets nests? Go BEEP and panic?
Perhaps try to be a little less sarcastic. It's not going to be a solution for all scenarios but more of a solution to assist hosts with repetitive tasks of managing their property and ensuring that when the property is vacant and something goes wrong you are alerted to the situation.

In terms of your comments around insurance, use of smart technology within a property is the future of home insurance as it actually reduces risk of damage because it can alert you to a situation before it develops. Aviva and other big insurance companies now offer smart tech as part of their product offering.

I also have a smart lock in my own property and it fits to a standard BS certified lock which is covered by insurance. So that isn't a problem. Many hosts out there are already utilising the use of such devices.
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