Energy and Water - business or domestic

Agencies and other headaches, keys and cleaners, running costs and contracts...in short, all the things we spend so much of our time doing behind the scenes.<br>
tchn
Posts: 229
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2012 11:02 pm
Location: Lake District

Energy and Water - business or domestic

Post by tchn »

We've recently moved our phone/broadband from a domestic to a business account. It was cheaper on renewal and for 24 months but is now more expensive, though the service is so much easier to access and more effective (BT Business).

I've realised that my water and energy accounts could also be on business accounts - does anyone have any observations about whether this is a good thing to do?

Thanks,
Tom
newtimber
Posts: 1945
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2012 5:57 pm
Location: Brighton
Contact:

Re: Energy and Water - business or domestic

Post by newtimber »

tchn wrote:We've recently moved our phone/broadband from a domestic to a business account. It was cheaper on renewal and for 24 months but is now more expensive, though the service is so much easier to access and more effective (BT Business).

I've realised that my water and energy accounts could also be on business accounts - does anyone have any observations about whether this is a good thing to do?

Thanks,
Tom
It's not really going to be worthwhile for water/electric. Regarding your phone/broadband, you have to switch suppliers. BT Business is more expensive than others.
tchn
Posts: 229
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2012 11:02 pm
Location: Lake District

Post by tchn »

Thanks Newtimber. We've stuck with BT business as the internet is our #1 problem area and their new 4G assure has already proved useful in flagging up when there are problems. Our 4G signal is pretty weak, but it's still been enough to alert BT (and us) when the Broadband has dropped out. They also make it easy to check the status of the router remotely; that's also useful given that we have thermostat, oil monitor et al working through wifi connections - so it's easier to fault find from 100s of miles away.

Why do you think it is not worthwhile to change water and electricity? Business rates appear cheaper on both.

Tom
akwe-xavante
Posts: 306
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2015 3:19 pm
Location: East Yorkshire

Post by akwe-xavante »

Whenever i've been quoted for business gas, water and electricity supplies they have always worked out to be 20% to 30% more expensive in the past.

Would never touch BT Business phone line and broadband ever again, positively the worst ever service i have ever had. I started the process of taking BT to court for poor well almost non existent service as it was far too restrictive foe my business at the time which i was not informed about in advance. It never went to court, BT terminated the contract and payed out a satifactory compensation sum but it took 9 months. I had to get a second line in and broadband until resolved.

Want a BT Business phone line and broadband contract! Why pay a lot more for a lot less. You can get the same service and more for a lot less elsewhere.
Rambling
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Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:06 am
Location: Anglesey. North Wales

Post by Rambling »

Who would you recommend as a provider then.Customers in Rural areas have very little choice unfortunately.
newtimber
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Location: Brighton
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Post by newtimber »

Rambling wrote:Who would you recommend as a provider then.Customers in Rural areas have very little choice unfortunately.
The lines are provided and supplied still by BT but other suppliers use their lines to provide their own services. Being in a rural area makes little difference other than the cost is higher for both BT and the other suppliers. The same goes with electric/gas/water.

We use Plusnet and XLN.
CarolineJ
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Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2017 3:52 pm
Location: North coast of Scotland
Contact:

Post by CarolineJ »

newtimber wrote:
Rambling wrote:Who would you recommend as a provider then.Customers in Rural areas have very little choice unfortunately.
The lines are provided and supplied still by BT but other suppliers use their lines to provide their own services. Being in a rural area makes little difference other than the cost is higher for both BT and the other suppliers. The same goes with electric/gas/water.

We use Plusnet and XLN.
Not necessarily always true. In my part of the Highlands (about 25 miles west of Thurso) it's only recently that Sky, EE, etc. have offered phone and broadband services, previously we weren't able to access them. Something to do with having a direct connection into the nearest exchange 3 miles away instead of the normal set up.
Faint heart never won fair holiday let...
akwe-xavante
Posts: 306
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2015 3:19 pm
Location: East Yorkshire

Post by akwe-xavante »

Throughout the whole UK except Hull (Kingston Communication) OpenReach look after the infrastructure of all exchanges and cables in all their various forms from copper cables and wires all the way through to fibre, satellite, radio and microwave for the service that they provide to BT and all the various other phone and broadband providers such as but not limited to Sky, Talktalk, BT and more. There are independent Radio, Satellite and microwave service providers.

They do contract out, but they are still responsible ultimately.

When a company such as Sky want to provide a service to an area of the country they have to pay OpenReach to access that part of the country, they lease lines and connections to get access to exchanges where they then get OpenReach to install kit into these exchanges at a cost so that they can then offer a product to the public. This depends on whether there is sufficient capacity within the infrastructure too, are the cables etc between cities and towns capable of carrying more capacity? Is the exchange at the end point big enough and modern enough to provide the service intended?

Is there enough scope / demand in the remote area to justify the cost of offering such services.

The phone line and Broadband providers can't just go about installing cables etc and building exchanges wherever at will and bolting cables into other providers cables etc.

It would be a complete and total mess.

Would you be happy if we all / if anybody could just put in cables and pipes for all the various utility services and inc phone and broadband at will!? If a neighbour said i'm digging up your driveway and putting a fibre cable into your house this afternoon and you have to let them do it and have no control over how it's done, next week another neighbour insists on disconnecting this cable because he's not happy and installs one of his own. Two other neighbours want cables too but an existing cables in the way so we'll have to move it.

So on and on.......................

OpenReach install and look after all cabling and exchanges etc etc

If Sky is not available in your area it's because either there isn't enough demand for sky to justify renting / leasing a connection into that area or existing cabling and or the exchange at the end point isn't capable of supporting Sky's service Yet.

Sky do install cables but they are contracted by OpenReach to do so, the finished job (The cables etc) are owned and maintained by OpenReach. OpenReach and Sky may have some long term agreement or contract on that cable though, an example may be that Sky have access to the lions share of that cables capacity for an agreed period of time if the cables installed at cost price to OpenReach.

OpenReach govern and maintain it all and rent / lease out access to it. If they didn't it would be Hell.

You don't own the gas pipe, the electric cable or water pipes etc into your home. Nor do the various utility companies.

Tonik, SSE, British Gas, EDF etc all lease pipes and cables to get gas and electric to your home, somebody else looks after and maintains them. British Gas and EDF etc do dig up roads and repair and maintain cables and pipes but do so under contract.

Anybody can install a new water main, a mains electric cable or a phone line into a property, you can do it, but they / you do so under contract and within strict guidelines and rules. You submit an application requesting permission if granted you can get on with it. When complete it no longer belongs to you anymore!!!!!!!

Well everything before the gas / electric meter no longer belongs to you even though you put it in at your expense! The same is true for communication cables and equipment for phone lines and broadband services too.

You run a 4 mile telephone cable in from the bottom of the lane yourself having successfully applied for planning permission to do so, you ask BT to connect it all up to the wider world, OpenReach or some other company under contract will connect you up for a “Connection Fee” (You cannot do this yourself). As soon as the BT Master socket is fitted within your property that 4 mile cable no longer belongs to you anymore!!

Theoretically it costs exactly the same on average to run a 60 mile fibre cable in anywhere, wherever. The process is the same, the materials and labour cost are the same. In reality it’s a lot cheaper to run that cable in, in a rural location because it’s far less complex, theirs far fewer other things in the way under the footpath or road to get in the way by comparison to an inner city location.

When you’re doing this for a small village / town or hamlet there’s fewer people / customers using the service, the cost of installation per head of population is considerably higher.

It’s not so much the cost of installation, it’s the low income after installation that makes it so expensive....... is it worth it!?
akwe-xavante
Posts: 306
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2015 3:19 pm
Location: East Yorkshire

Post by akwe-xavante »

newtimber wrote:
Rambling wrote:
Who would you recommend as a provider then.Customers in Rural areas have very little choice unfortunately.
BT will of paid OpenReach to plumb in a service into your location and at the moment no other service provider can justify paying OpenReach a fee to provide there own service to you.

Sky will not lease / rent the cable into your area unless theres a demand and they can make a profit.

Sky may say "we can't offer a service to you", or some such other excuse, in reality they can't justify offering a service to you because theirs no profit in it for them, they can give you sky but won't.

Same applies to any other provider, there has to be a good profitable return before they lease / hire a service into your location from OpenReach.
AppletreeGlamping
Posts: 18
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 2:24 pm
Location: Wales

Post by AppletreeGlamping »

newtimber wrote: The lines are provided and supplied still by BT but other suppliers use their lines to provide their own services. Being in a rural area makes little difference other than the cost is higher for both BT and the other suppliers. The same goes with electric/gas/water.

We use Plusnet and XLN.
Plusnet are owned by BT but are slightly cheaper. However with BT the line was always up with Plusnet it suffers from brownouts losing connection for a few minutes especially in the evenings. Nothing has changed infrastructure wise and the router is my own and not the garbage provided by ISPs. I've had complaints so might have to switch back to BT :/
Annew
Posts: 925
Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:02 am
Location: Devon

Post by Annew »

In reply to the OP Q, yes 15 yrs experience says - it is worth it. Cheaper, quicker & more efficient customer service ... no brainer! FWIW it's still very easy to change suppliers with a business account too should you wish to do that. Also, in my experience, it is easier to do a deal with your original supplier when you are a business customer..
If you want to find me, Google The Barton Poughill!
Kilm
Posts: 44
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 4:23 pm

Re: Energy and Water - business or domestic

Post by Kilm »

tchn wrote:We've recently moved our phone/broadband from a domestic to a business account. It was cheaper on renewal and for 24 months but is now more expensive, though the service is so much easier to access and more effective (BT Business).

I've realised that my water and energy accounts could also be on business accounts - does anyone have any observations about whether this is a good thing to do?

Thanks,
Tom
Depends how you've set up the property.

If you have registered it as a business and are claiming exemption under small business rules based on your rateable value, the water must be business water. It can't be the normal water supply with the couple of hundred quid a year charge.

Registering with a business water company is a nightmare, but I found Castle Water who are amazing.

Energy can be anything you like, business or otherwise, but as far as I'm aware, it's only water that -must- be business water.
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