Lay My Hat home page Lay My Hat Forum
The forum for holiday rental owners


 
  FAQFAQ    SearchSearch    MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups    RegisterRegister  
  ProfileProfile    Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages    Log inLog in 

Perceived lack of cleanliness causes guest to walk out
Goto page Previous  1, 2
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Lay My Hat Forum Index ->
Managing your guests
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
aloneifly



Joined: 10 Jan 2012
Posts: 64
Location: Glasgow

PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suppose I did have a chance of turning around and going back to see the guest. I had just left him seemingly happy and he called as I arrived home (just in time for dinner!) to complain then about work surfaces being greasy, cutlery not clean enough and windows dirty - I recall that was his main gripe then after only being in the flat 15 minutes. I explained it had been cleaned that morning and my cleaner had gone on holiday at midday but I would see what I could do and get back to him. I made a call to an agency and got back to him within 20 minutes to say I would get it professionally cleaned, provide new cutlery and any other items he thought were not up to scratch. At that time he had gone for dinner and thanked me.
I then got an email a few hours later saying things had got worse , hairs etc and he had left and I was to contact co and arrange refund.
I replied apologizing for hairs and explained re the small stain on WC due to hard water and would he reconsider if I got cleaners in. No reply.

I havent yet replied to co email requesting a refund.

Thanks again for the replies - keep them coming!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Norfolk Canary



Joined: 07 Sep 2016
Posts: 45

PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If he chose to not even reply to your offer of getting another agency in to resolve the problems I would expect that would count against him as it caused a fait accompli.
I would write to them with the focus being on not being given a chance to resolve the problem. I wouldn’t worry about losing their business as I think thatnhas occurred already.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
newtimber



Joined: 24 Nov 2012
Posts: 1700
Location: Brighton

PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Norfolk Canary wrote:
If he chose to not even reply to your offer of getting another agency in to resolve the problems I would expect that would count against him as it caused a fait accompli.
I would write to them with the focus being on not being given a chance to resolve the problem. I wouldn’t worry about losing their business as I think thatnhas occurred already.


It depends on how soon the cleaning would actually take place.

If the guest thinks the place is very dirty, I think it probably reasonable that they wouldn't want to spend the night there - unless it was put right (or at least cleaners on-site) by the time they came back from dinner.
_________________
Newtimber Holiday Cottages Facebook Page
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
aloneifly



Joined: 10 Jan 2012
Posts: 64
Location: Glasgow

PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

newtimber wrote:


It depends on how soon the cleaning would actually take place.

If the guest thinks the place is very dirty, I think it probably reasonable that they wouldn't want to spend the night there - unless it was put right (or at least cleaners on-site) by the time they came back from dinner.


It was early evening - my cleaner had gone on holiday and no cleaning agency was open. It isnt a hotel where he could expect cleaning staff to address his complaint whilst he was out.
In hindsight I agree though that I should have returned before he went for dinner to pacify him. But at that point he didnt seem overly anxious as I had agreed to get it cleaned and rectify any other issues he felt wasnt up to standard.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
aloneifly



Joined: 10 Jan 2012
Posts: 64
Location: Glasgow

PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is my draft reply having listened to the discussion here.

Hi Tasha

I am not at all happy about the situation. The apartment had been cleaned that morning. However it did not seem to meet James’ standards so he called me at home after I had left him seemingly happy.
I offered to engage a professional cleaning service as soon as I could arrange it and offered also to rectify any other issues he was unhappy about – including replacing some kitchen items.
He seemed to agree to that and it wasn’t until a few hours later that I received his bombshell e mail telling me he had left and wasnt returning. He had found some hairs on a placemat – unfortunate and shouldn’t have happened I agree – and what he thought was excrement in the wc. It was not excrement – simply a small stain at the bottom of the WC bowl because we live in an area of hard water.
I replied to his email saying that I would clean the offending toilet bowl as well as again offering to have the cleaners in.
I received no reply.

I feel therefore that by walking out and not giving me a chance to rectify any issues he in effect cancelled the booking.
As such I do not feel that a refund is appropriate or necessary.
I have been holding the accommodation and other accommodation for an expected extended stay since your initial contact and have indeed turned away other potential bookings. To refund the full amount will leave me heavily out of pocket with insufficient time to re let the accommodation.
I should also add that I had offered SouthView apartment when he arrived but he liked the location of the studio. I was expecting him to stay at Southview which is what you had asked for all along.

I propose therefore to offer an ex gratia refund with no admission of liability to your company or indeed to James.
I think an offer of 50% refund is generous.

I can do this if you advise me of the bank sort code and account no to transfer this amount of 850.00

I then hope we can close this unfortunate matter
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
newtimber



Joined: 24 Nov 2012
Posts: 1700
Location: Brighton

PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aloneifly wrote:
g - my cleaner had gone on holiday and no cleaning agency was open. It isnt a hotel where he could expect cleaning staff to address his complaint whilst he was out.


Believe me I fully understand but I think the difference is that this is a company let and the company has a duty of care to their employees.

Some people would not be prepared to spend one night in "dirty" accommodation (I use "dirty" because that is what the guest thinks it is not because it actually is) and it would need to be cleaned before they actually slept there.

You or I would clean the "dirty" work surface if it bothered us, but this is not part of the employee's job description and they cannot be expected or asked by the employer to do this.

As I say, you needed to go over and do it yourself if you couldn't find anyone else.
_________________
Newtimber Holiday Cottages Facebook Page
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
zebedee



Joined: 12 Sep 2014
Posts: 1039
Location: yorkshire dales

PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Alonifly,
Your response needs to be more formal and businesslike. Also more concise - as it reads to me it is too defensive and contains detail which is unnecessary. I do think you have to accept on the chin that your guest did have a valid issue to raise, but that sometimes busy people under stress and pressure of work don’t have the same level of patience when you said you would get a professional company in “as soon as I could arrange it”.

It is also possible that your cleaner was keen to get away and start her holiday, so perhaps did not pay the normal level of attention to detail?. I would struggle to relax over the hair issue, and would worry about what else there was that I couldn’t see or had not seen yet.

I would suggest something like:

“Dear Tasha,
I very much regret that the property did not appear to meet your VP requirements. It was unfortunate that my regular cleaner had gone on holiday that day as I would normally have been able to take immediate steps to address what are in fact very unusual concerns. I do value your custom and am saddened that I was not afforded a little more time to put matters right.

I am therefore offering a refund of 50% without prejudice.

I can do this immediately if you advise me of the bank sort code and account number to transfer the amount of £850.00

I trust this will close this unfortunate matter”

Edited to add: I’ve just noted that AndrewH used the term ex gratia so perhaps use that instead of “without prejudice”. It always good to get free legal advice so don’t waste the opportunity Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
COYS



Joined: 06 Jun 2015
Posts: 794
Location: Greek Islands

PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 5:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Take Zebedees draft & if you get out with 50% I'd call that a win. Better quality control or new cleaner required.
_________________
This time next year Rodney, we'll be millionaires.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
GillianF



Joined: 20 Aug 2012
Posts: 804
Location: Dordogne

PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I agree Zebedee's reply is more professional and formal. Send it, refund the money and address the issue with your cleaner when she is back from holiday.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
KathyG



Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 3259
Location: Le Faou, Brittany

PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great except this bit ....

"It was unfortunate that my regular cleaner had gone on holiday that day ......"

implies that it hadn't been cleaned by the normal cleaner.
_________________
Kathy
Waterfront location in Le Faou
"My goal in life is to become as wonderful as my dog thinks I am."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Tournesol



Joined: 18 May 2017
Posts: 75
Location: Charente

PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

teba18 wrote:
I'm sorry to say I agree with newtimber. Hard water stains can be removed quite easily with a good limescale product"


Chuck a bottle of 39p Tesco distilled vinegar down and leave it overnight - much more effective, cheaper and more ecological than any of the so-called special limescale removing chemicals.
_________________
What you've never had you never miss!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
aloneifly



Joined: 10 Jan 2012
Posts: 64
Location: Glasgow

PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Update-
I have now made two offers to the company re a refund. firstly 50% so £850. When that was refused I upped it to £1k.

That was returned with 17 pictures of what he thought was unsatisfactory cleanliness. I am taliking 4 in a bed here where they deliberatley find fault. Under sink cupboards, dust on the edges of the speaker covers on a hi fi. Stuff like that. - places a normal guest wouldnt be worried about. A few warranted perhaps but makes me wonder if he did have a hidden agenda and wanted to find fault.

My own biggest beef is the fact he gave me absolutely no chance to satisfy his complaints. He must have taken these photos , sent his email to say he wasn't staying a minute longer and then left.

No doubt I am going to have to refund it full. If I do hold out presumably they will try to recover it from small claims court of whatever? If I contest it any idea of legal costs anyone?

Thanks

Ronnie
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
zebedee



Joined: 12 Sep 2014
Posts: 1039
Location: yorkshire dales

PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The trouble is, you didn’t send out any terms and conditions which would have stated that he needed to give you opportunity to put things right. It’s a hard lesson I’m afraid.

17photos sounds rather angry to me. I would be inclined to refund now, to get it resolved. I don’t think he is going to settle for less. Do you want the stress? Or the bad reviews?

(But you do need to have that difficult conversation with your cleaner ASAP).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Drax



Joined: 21 Jul 2016
Posts: 110
Location: Yorkshire Dales

PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is not worth the hassle, costs and risks of lawyers and civil court proceedings.
When you involve legal professionals always remember the story of 2 farmers arguing over the ownership of a cow. One farmer is pulling on the cow's head, the other farmer is pulling on the cow's tail. But in the middle are two lawyers milking the cow.
It would appear they have a strong case and you stand to lose a lot of money if it goes to court. 'Take it on the chin' and pay them the full refund.
_________________
Keep your powder dry.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
aloneifly



Joined: 10 Jan 2012
Posts: 64
Location: Glasgow

PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have now offered a full refund. Not happy

Case closed !
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Lay My Hat Forum Index ->
Managing your guests
All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group