Building Site Noise

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TheBrewster
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Building Site Noise

Post by TheBrewster »

Hi all. We got to our house on Monday to find the empty plot opposite filled with the loudest machinery I have EVER heard. It is so loud you can't even hold a conversation on the terrace.
They are "piling" apparently? Digging the foundations for either a house or the pool.
Anyway. There is no permit displayed anywhere on the perimeter fence (which I understood by law there has to be?)
I'm very very worried. Our first clients arrive on May 4th and then we're pretty full through until October.
My main concern is that a nearby neighbour seems to think that our Ajuntament doesn't have the restrictions on building work that the very touristy area's do-we're the next zone along from those.
So they won't have to stop the work for the summer. Which would be devastating for us.
Has anyone had any experience in this? Our lawyer is phoning the Town Hall today so we're just waiting really.
Thankyou :(
costa-brava
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Post by costa-brava »

Hello again Brewster
Spanish law requires a building licence before work starts (licencia de obras) and for what you describe it is "obras mayores" or major works. If they are doing piling then that will be following on from soil tests. So I would be extremely surprised if they don't have all their ducks in line. The machine operator will want to know the licence is in place before starting to dig.
On the other hand, by your own admission, you don't have all your ducks in line for the rental business that you feel is under threat from the noise.
I'm not sure about your "lawyer". Having your own lawyer is not a concept I'm familiar with here in Spain. Back in Scotland I had a lawyer who was pure gold but Spanish lawyers are a bit iffy on property issues. And Brits who say they're lawyers??
Building stuff is normally done by the architect or a building surveyor (called "arquitecto tecnico" or "aparejador").
Why don't you visit the site and ask to speak to the "aparejador"? He or she will probably speak English.
Anyway whoever goes to the town hall, if they are armed just with the address of the plot of land, should get an answer from the town architect.
It is generally well controlled and not so very different to the UK.
Just 2 doors down from me, the demolition squad moved in yesterday. Knocking down an old metalworks to build a block of flats. They don't have the "licencia de obras" pinned up but I know 100% they have all the permissions sorted. The really noisy bit was a few weeks ago, digging down to do the soil tests.
I'm not sure if it applies right across Spain but here all building stops for August.
I understand your worries but as Father Ted used to say, "Shxx happens".
TheBrewster
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Post by TheBrewster »

Hi costa-brava. Thanks again for your advice.
The reason we used our lawyer for the initial contact is because she is Mallorquin - dealing with a Mallorquin Town Hall. She has been with us from day one and is incredibly helpful at dealing with some of the idiosyncrosies of Balearic bureaucracy (that's not easy to say!)
We now have the relevant paperwork to take to the Town Hall on Monday and they will contact us from there.
I'm not sure what you mean about us not having all our ducks in line. We did-we've got a house full all summer. That's why I'm so worried about this noise!
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CSE
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Post by CSE »

I'm not sure what you mean about us not having all our ducks in line
https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/ha ... s+in+a+row
or
https://c8.alamy.com/comp/ACAKBA/three- ... ACAKBA.jpg :lol: :lol:
Never try to out-stubborn your guests.
costa-brava
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Post by costa-brava »

The link from Casa explains the ducks precisely (in a row not in a line). It also reinforces my point about the lawyer. Nowadays, if you want to do holiday lets in Spain, you need to have everything complying with the rules BEFORE YOU START RENTING!
You need to have all your ducks in a row before you start. There is a concept in Spain called "en tramite" which is that if you have kicked off the initial documentation and paid any dues, you can proceed but, this aside, you need to have all permissions and refernce numbers etc. BEFORE YOU START.
I'm not surprised you have forward bookings; your place look great! But if your helpful lawyer was really effective she would have advised you of this very basic fact.
Not having a go here but myself, Casa and others have been beating this drum for a couple of years. Spain has changed over the last 20 years. When we came here in 1986 there were lots of properties that had never even been registered anywhere. Now they have drones overflying and photographing everywhere and the details of town halls, property registers, catastro offices, tax offices, banks and utility companies are all cross-referenced. In 1987 I set up an English language school. I ran for two years with the permissions "en tramite" while the kids of the town hall officials came to my classes. I couldn't do that now.
Ecosse
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Post by Ecosse »

costa-brava wrote:The link from Casa explains the ducks precisely (in a row not in a line). It also reinforces my point about the lawyer. Nowadays, if you want to do holiday lets in Spain, you need to have everything complying with the rules BEFORE YOU START RENTING!
You need to have all your ducks in a row before you start. There is a concept in Spain called "en tramite" which is that if you have kicked off the initial documentation and paid any dues, you can proceed but, this aside, you need to have all permissions and refernce numbers etc. BEFORE YOU START.
Sorry to comment on a Spain thread when I'm in France but has there been a misunderstanding regarding 'first guests'? I read it as 'first guests of the year' as opposed to 'first guest ever'... my reading seems to be backed up by review(s) from last year on TheBrewster's website.

Surely he's up and running already and therefore already has lined up all his ducks... unless I'm missing something?
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roxytoo
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Post by roxytoo »

I think you have to let all guests know in advance there is noise but you don't know how much and either offer a full refund or part refund...........what does your contract say re noise?
costa-brava
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Post by costa-brava »

ECOSSE You need to go to Brewster's previous thread speaking about getting documentation sorted out. If she was renting last year then my point is more pertinent. There are fewer and fewer corners left in Spain where you can do holiday lets without a "licence" and a reference number to put in your advertising. If you don't have this you should not be engaging in the activity. And you are on shaky ground (pardon the pun) if you complain about neighbours' noise upsetting your guests. That is the essence of my "ducks in a row" comment. While she clearly has a good set-up for getting bookings that is secondary to making sure you have the legality sewn up. Your comment about last year also strengthens my comments about the lawyer. Legality has to be the first base for any legal advisor. May I offer a sincere apology to Brewster if I have misunderstood and if in fact she has a bona fide holiday let. But I have understood that she doesn't and in fact, for some reason, her local tax payments are not clear.
I haven't commented on how much compensation to offer guests but I am sure Brewster will be happy if this thread moves in that direction. It is obviously worrying her. I have made my point, time to move on.
TheBrewster
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Post by TheBrewster »

Thanks ECOSSE.
I do indeed have a bona fide, very beautiful and totally legal holiday let.
I misunderstood the thinking behind this forum obviously. I believed that this was a place where I could come for some salient advice about an issue that has just arisen, that is really worrying me, and will affect my clients this summer. This is their holiday, and I want it to be perfect for them.
However, I have been patronised and made to feel really quite stupid.
And for what it's worth, I am well aware what the expression "ducks in a row" means but thanks for clearing it up anyway.
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roxytoo
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Post by roxytoo »

costa brava, did you look at her website where it clearly states her registration number/etv?

The brewster, please don't feel patronised, I think its his hobby.....

I know a couple of owners in Majorca who do NOT have to display a licence number on their adverts at the moment for various reasons which I won't go into on here. As I have said before this is Spain, anything can happen and it depends on who you speak to most of the time.
TheBrewster
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Post by TheBrewster »

Thanks roxytoo. I was quite taken aback by my own stupidity there for a moment :?
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CSE
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Post by CSE »

Is a duck confusing IBI and ETV? Maybe they are going quackers.
TheBrewster, you are doing the right thing. Hope it works out ok. Let us know.
Never try to out-stubborn your guests.
costa-brava
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Post by costa-brava »

Brewster wrote in the post about IBI:
"I'm trying to create my advert for Spain-Holidays and I am tantalisingly close. But I need our latest IBI bill and neither our solicitor nor our tax man in Spain seems to have a copy. I know I'm probably being very stupid here but any ideas on where I can find it? "
I made assumptions from that which were questionable and repeat the apology I have already made.
When she came on later with this post about noise it seemed to me that there were matters of her own that needed fixed before tackling the neighbours.
Again, if that is wrongly interpreted, I apologise.
Sorry if my comments upset people especially Brewster. That is certainly not my hobby. My hobby is creating musical instruments from Century Plant stalks.
However I will do a post at a later point that might clarify where I am coming from on these issues. For the next couple of weeks we have Brexit to worry about.
Again to Brewster; sorry if I bugged you with my comments but more especially that you found them unhelpful. If you look at the Rabbie Burns quote below, perhaps I could learn from it too.
TheBrewster
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Post by TheBrewster »

casasantaestovo - at no point have I confused an IBI and an ETV. And I'm really not sure where that assumption comes from.
I am painfully, and 28,000 euro later, aware of what an ETV is.
But you're obviously king of the castle where Lay My Hat is concerned and I bow to your superior knowledge.
I'm not sure your pomposity is justified, but I've learnt my lesson, and won't be asking for any more advice. What a shame because I had thought this was a fantastic resource for homeowners like ourselves.
TheBrewster
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Post by TheBrewster »

And thankyou costa-brava. But I don't want to "tackle the neighbours"
I wanted some advice on a very worrying issue that I had.
And yes. You misinterpreted alot that I said.
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