Brexit, Vote to Revoke Article 50

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Codliveroil
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Brexit, Vote to Revoke Article 50

Post by Codliveroil »

This applies to British Citizens anywhere.

Whether you are a remainer or leaver a "No Deal" or "May's Deal" are both the worst possible outcomes for both sides. It has become an absolute farce. Theresa May declares that it would be undemocratic to revoke Article 50 and so pushes ahead regardless, ignoring the fact that democracy failed the public in the first instance when the referendum was offered without full disclosure of possible outcomes.

It is necessary to revoke Article 50, so that this government or a future government can learn from this shambles and get their ducks in order. By FIRST negotiating binding radical changes within the EU or negotiating a binding withdrawal agreement AFTER WHICH and only then, have a referendum and if the results dictate, then submit an Article 50.

 https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584

Please vote and pass this on to all Brits that you know:

Thank you
Last edited by Codliveroil on Sat Mar 23, 2019 8:04 am, edited 3 times in total.
Drax
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Post by Drax »

I should not worry with regard to the UK leaving the EU. It is patently obvious that the Remainer MP's, the 'establishment' the 'elite' and 'Uncle Tom Cobley and all', will not allow the UK to leave the UK. We are staying in the EU
I along with the majority of people who voted in the Referendum voted to leave the EU. Despite all the dire warnings from the 'Project Fear' gang we won the referendum.
Now though it is clear it was a hollow victory, democracy in this country is a joke and what was once a proud country has become a 'laughing stock' to the rest of the world.
Brexit has become a farce overseen by our leaders who could not organise the proverbial **** up in a brewery.
What a shambles.
Keep your powder dry.
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Post by e-richard »

I feel that its a great shame that vociferous proponents on both sides of the argument have become so embittered and aggressive to those who voted differently.

This is true in Parliament, true among the public and true in the media.

It is for this reason and no other, that I believe we should delay, take stock, discuss and reappraise what we as a country want to do.

I believe that this hope will fail miserably. I have lost faith in my fellow humans.
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Post by Ecosse »

Drax wrote:I should not worry with regard to the UK leaving the EU. It is patently obvious that the Remainer MP's, the 'establishment' the 'elite' and 'Uncle Tom Cobley and all', will not allow the UK to leave the UK. We are staying in the EU
I along with the majority of people who voted in the Referendum voted to leave the EU. Despite all the dire warnings from the 'Project Fear' gang we won the referendum.
Now though it is clear it was a hollow victory, democracy in this country is a joke and what was once a proud country has become a 'laughing stock' to the rest of the world.
Brexit has become a farce overseen by our leaders who could not organise the proverbial **** up in a brewery.
What a shambles.
I agree, it is a shambles and democracy is a joke. I am also sorry for you, and so much of the population of Britain, that you were conned by our self preserving, selfish politicians whose only interest was in filling their own ample coffers. The lies they peddled were never possible. The perfect, fresh hen laid eggs could never be removed from the omelette, but they made it sound so plausible: EU do nothing for us, trade deals are easily struck; we're better alone.

Many remainers like to pretend it's only the uneducated who voted leave, but that's not true: rich or poor, educated or not, we all have the potential to fall for a con man. It's telling that Scotland overall voted to remain, however it's not some greater intellect that's caused this, it's simply the 2014 Scottish independence referendum. We were conned then with promises that remaining in the union was the only way we could guarantee our membership of the EU. Having been conned once, like most victims of a con man we were wiser, and more cynical to the Westminster lies second time round.

That's only the 'benefit' of being previously conned. Sadly, considering the importance of the issues at stake, our previous experience and significantly smaller population could not sway the vote and now we're all left with an utter disaster. Leave or remain, we are all being screwed by our parliament.
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CSE
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Post by CSE »

Never try to out-stubborn your guests.
Codliveroil
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Post by Codliveroil »

:D Very funny, I'll have to wash my ears out with soap now, but there is certainly some truth in what he says!

I couldn't vote in the referendum because I have been out of UK far too long, I left during the miners + dustbin persons (PC) and a dozen other strikes back in the 70's and now live 8 months each year in Canada and 4 months in Portugal. So you could say Brexit hardly affects me apart from it affecting our rentals this year and possibly in the future.

But that is not the issue, I am still a Brit and am saddened about how divided the UK has become, the internet has not helped, every Joe Soap can post an opinion whether true or false which soon becomes fact, (I sound like Trump), and before you know it fake news proliferates. Similarly 400 politicians stand in front of a TV camera with their own personal agenda and mouth off a load of uninformed and biased blather. Is this how government is supposed to work?

The other issue which troubles me is the Irish border, we spend a few weeks each year there when we to and fro and have stayed with friends in Northern Ireland, the peace is very very fragile and this has to be taken into account to avoid returning to the situation before the peace accord. Have our politicians got this worked out. No.

Democracy is not working, who is at fault, the politicians, the system or the public who spend too much time on the internet and in front of TV being swayed back and forth by all the twaddle they hear.

Sorry, rant over :oops:
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Post by Norfolk Canary »

Not surprising that those above with non UK EU properties favour remaining in the EU. If we don’t follow through what the majority voted for there will be major unrest. Our government (small ‘g’ intended) has become a laughing stock with its complete and utter ineptitude.
Marks
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Post by Marks »

Norfolk Canary wrote:Not surprising that those above with non UK EU properties favour remaining in the EU. If we don’t follow through what the majority voted for there will be major unrest. Our government (small ‘g’ intended) has become a laughing stock with its complete and utter ineptitude.
I can point you in the direction of many hundreds of ex-pats (aka immigrants) and holiday home owners who voted leave :?

The 37% of electorate who voted to leave in June 2016 was not a majority then and the even smaller number now who want to leave is still not a majority. Why not ask the people again, now that we all know so much more than we did in 2016? If the result is still to leave then OK but let's at least ask the British people what they now think. Is that not democracy in action or did it die on 23.06.2016?
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Drax
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Post by Drax »

Marks wrote:
Norfolk Canary wrote:Not surprising that those above with non UK EU properties favour remaining in the EU. If we don’t follow through what the majority voted for there will be major unrest. Our government (small ‘g’ intended) has become a laughing stock with its complete and utter ineptitude.
I can point you in the direction of many hundreds of ex-pats (aka immigrants) and holiday home owners who voted leave :?

The 37% of electorate who voted to leave in June 2016 was not a majority then and the even smaller number now who want to leave is still not a majority. Why not ask the people again, now that we all know so much more than we did in 2016? If the result is still to leave then OK but let's at least ask the British people what they now think. Is that not democracy in action or did it die on 23.06.2016?
The EU and its 'disciples' have got 'form' for requiring referendums to be held again until the electorate come to the 'right decision'.
The fact is the UK is bitterly divided and holding another referendum will not solve this crisis regardless of the outcome.
It is a mess cased by our inept politicians and those appalling EU Commissioners.
Keep your powder dry.
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Post by Ecosse »

Drax wrote: and those appalling EU Commissioners.
Not wishing to start a slanging match, but I'm genuinely interested in everyone's perspective on this... what's the basis for this opinion, Drax? Why are they appalling?
Drax
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Post by Drax »

Ecosse wrote:
Drax wrote: and those appalling EU Commissioners.
Not wishing to start a slanging match, but I'm genuinely interested in everyone's perspective on this... what's the basis for this opinion, Drax? Why are they appalling?
Just my opinion based upon what I have read and heard from the news outlets, newspapers, TV, Radio etc.
i.e. The intransigence of the EU during the Brexit negotiations and also with David Cameron when he tried to negotiate better terms prior to the referendum.
Donald Tusks' snide remarks referring to Teresa Mays' diabetes illness. His comments referring to a "A special place in Hell for Brexiters.
I am no fan of the EU either.
Keep your powder dry.
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Post by Moliere »

The decisions in the EU are taken by the European Parliament, for which you have a vote, and which is arguably more democratic and representative than the British parliament because it is elected by PR.

The EU, unlike a sovereign nation, has to obey the laws which govern it, so when negotiating with another party (eg the UK) it has very little flexibility, this is often misconstrued as intransigence, whereas in fact it has no choice.

Tusk's remark about a "special place in hell" was born out of frustration that after two years of negotiations the Brexiteers continued to reject the resulting agreement. My personal opinion is that he's dead right and I would very much like the ERG group to suffer such a fate.

And just for the record I think the EU is bloody great.
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Ecosse
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Post by Ecosse »

Drax wrote:
Ecosse wrote:
Drax wrote: and those appalling EU Commissioners.
Not wishing to start a slanging match, but I'm genuinely interested in everyone's perspective on this... what's the basis for this opinion, Drax? Why are they appalling?
Just my opinion based upon what I have read and heard from the news outlets, newspapers, TV, Radio etc.
i.e. The intransigence of the EU during the Brexit negotiations and also with David Cameron when he tried to negotiate better terms prior to the referendum.
Donald Tusks' snide remarks referring to Teresa Mays' diabetes illness. His comments referring to a "A special place in Hell for Brexiters.
I am no fan of the EU either.
Sadly this is the problem with the UK press: for more than 40 years they have been working with successive governments to cover up politicians' errors and unpopular (solely British) legislation by pretending it was the EU who either made them do it, or wouldn't allow them to do it. The result? A population who, through no fault of their own, genuinely believe the EU have done nothing for them.

Furthermore, if the press can omit words and twist the remaining ones to make a phrase sound more controversial (read: sell more copies), they will. What Tusk actually said was, 'British leaders who sold Brexit with no plan for how to deliver it deserve a "special place in hell", which, of course, is unarguably spot-on... and very different to the UK press's various twisted versions implying he wants to see 52% of the country to burn in hell.

In my opinion, the UK press should be held as accountable for this utter fiasco as the self-serving and completely incompetent excuses for human beings strutting around Westminster.
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Post by newtimber »

Moliere wrote:
The EU, unlike a sovereign nation, has to obey the laws which govern it, so when negotiating with another party (eg the UK) it has very little flexibility, this is often misconstrued as intransigence, whereas in fact it has no choice.
Having to obey rules is one of the main problems of the EU. Rules should be a tool to help to achieve an objective, but should not slavishly followed if by doing so they will not achieve the objective.

The negotiations should have started by each side saying what they wanted their relationship to be and then working out a way to achieve this to each other's mutual benefit.

Everyone in everyday life knows how important it is to have a good neighbour. A neighbour who insists on following rules is not a good neighbour. Do I want to be belong to an organisation which is not a good neighbour even though it is best for me to belong to it?
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Post by Ecosse »

newtimber wrote:
Moliere wrote:
The EU, unlike a sovereign nation, has to obey the laws which govern it, so when negotiating with another party (eg the UK) it has very little flexibility, this is often misconstrued as intransigence, whereas in fact it has no choice.
Having to obey rules is one of the main problems of the EU. Rules should be a tool to help to achieve an objective, but should not slavishly followed if by doing so they will not achieve the objective.

The negotiations should have started by each side saying what they wanted their relationship to be and then working out a way to achieve this to each other's mutual benefit.

Everyone in everyday life knows how important it is to have a good neighbour. A neighbour who insists on following rules is not a good neighbour. Do I want to be belong to an organisation which is not a good neighbour even though it is best for me to belong to it?
A couple of things here:

Firstly, there's a huge difference between rules and laws: a neighbour doggedly sticking to the rules is annoying and could perhaps be persuaded to be less rigid. A neighbour sticking to the law, cannot and should not be persuaded to change their mind as that would cause them to commit a criminal offence, with you as the accomplice.

Secondly, whether you're part of the membership or not, the EU remains your neighbour. They can't move, so all you've done, is ditch the bad neighbour with benefits and replace it with the same bad neighbour without the benefits... and one that no longer likes you.

For the record, I don't think the EU is a bad neighbour, just a deeply misunderstood one :(
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