HomeAway Email re payment after check in

OTA = Online Travel Agency, which means those sites that sell the booking and take the payment for you.
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wallypott
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Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 9:50 pm

HomeAway Email re payment after check in

Post by wallypott »

Hello all

Has anyone received an email from HomeAway announcing that payments will now happen after check-in. A massive disaster for me - I'm going to have to find about 15k€ in mortgage payments to cover the delay in payments.

Have spoken to HA who say this out of their hands its Yapstones doing. But the good news is that they will be bringing in their own payment system - which will be using the same system of payment after check-in, so screwed either way.

Am now on hold to Yapstone where I expect to be given more flannel.


Email here:
Dear X

Yapstone, your payment processor, has announced today that it has discontinued Advanced Payments. This feature released funds to you soon after a traveller paid. Going forward, your funds will be released to your bank account one business day after a traveller checks in.

A better payment experience is here

Because payments are critical to your business, HomeAway and Expedia Group have been working to build an upgraded payment option for you. Our solution is now ready — here’s how to get started:

Sign in to your account and accept the new payment terms
Follow the instructions in the confirmation email to add your bank account details.

Once you complete these steps, you’ll get the following benefits:
A flat 3% processing fee and no surcharges
World-class fraud prevention
Expert 24/7 support from our team with no transfers to third parties
New reporting tools that make tracking payouts easier
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wallypott
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Post by wallypott »

So Yapstone say that we are not obliged to accept this but there will be a further 3% on payments for an immediate payout rather than waiting til check-in.

There will be a further email from Yapstone which will give you an option to opt-in to advanced payment.
Martha
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Location: Chamonix

Post by Martha »

"A better payment experience is here"
:roll:

They have been moving everyone over to this for some time. I called them, I think, about three years ago. When we moved back to commission after they started bumping down subscription properties which decimated our bookings.

I said, come on, I KNOW that lots of people get payment at check-in with commission option, why do I have to wait? They said that was because they were 'grandfathered in' on the system and HA would transition them all over in time. So they can hang onto your money for a long as possible :(

My experience of this was that they would absolutely not back down. To bring it in with no notice at all is really disgraceful so you might try asking for a grace period in which to re-adjust your cashflow. Good luck.

One very small bright spot is that I have found HA's own system to be better than Yapstone who are out and out crooks in my view – conveniently 'forgot' a lot of payouts, and made many 'mistakes' which were always in their favour.
Chalet la Foret, Chamonix
Dusty
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Post by Dusty »

I sympathise with you Wallypot but that's not a lot of help to you. I have just done an analysis of how much business HA bring us, the results are quite interesting (well to me anyway).
We started in 2013.

2013 - 17 weeks HA - 17 weeks total
2014 - 5 weeks HA - 22 weeks total
2015 - 6 weeks HA - 17 weeks total
2016 - 6 weeks HA - 19 weeks total
2017 - 5 weeks HA - 17 weeks total
2018 - 5 weeks HA - 17 weeks total
2019 - 2 weeks HA - 19 weeks total

I know that there are many factors that can influence bookings, but it shows how bookings from HA have fallen off a cliff, for us anyway.
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wallypott
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Post by wallypott »

To be honest my bookings have fallen off a cliff over the last 2 years and I'm now running at a loss due to large mortgage. Last year I thought it was because I'd taken my eye of the ball, but this year it's not the case. No bookings in June, Sept or Oct.

Brittany Ferries is much ahead on actual income production this year.

Homeaway 5 36%
Brittany F 4 29%
Abritel 3 21%
Telephone 1 7%
Repeat 1 7%

Total income is down by 50% and number of bookings as well since 2012 which was my best year by loads. I've not increased my prices since 2010 - when I bought and renovated the property totally.
AndrewH
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Post by AndrewH »

Dusty wrote:I sympathise with you Wallypot but that's not a lot of help to you. I have just done an analysis of how much business HA bring us, the results are quite interesting (well to me anyway).
We started in 2013.

2013 - 17 weeks HA - 17 weeks total
2014 - 5 weeks HA - 22 weeks total
2015 - 6 weeks HA - 17 weeks total
2016 - 6 weeks HA - 19 weeks total
2017 - 5 weeks HA - 17 weeks total
2018 - 5 weeks HA - 17 weeks total
2019 - 2 weeks HA - 19 weeks total

I know that there are many factors that can influence bookings, but it shows how bookings from HA have fallen off a cliff, for us anyway.
Interesting to me too as an observer. On your figures, it looks like the rot had set in with HomeAway(UK) before its acquisition by Expedia in 2015. Perhaps increasing competition from AB&B around 2014 for a "whole house" experience, and not just a room for a night or two, was eating into HomeAway's customer base.
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Vera
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Post by Vera »

We started letting through Owners Direct in 2005 and for the first 3 years for two properties we let 219, 228 and 277 nights. Home Away bought them in 2007 and in 2008 we let 79 nights with them.

This was the start of the decline and this year we have zero nights booked through.

I am seriously thinking of removing my listing with them. For some reason I would rather pay Bookingdotcom or ABB their commission, at least they are up front about charges and we only use them to fill last minute holes.
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roxytoo
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Location: Spain Costa Blanca

Post by roxytoo »

homeaway have been setting up their own in house payments in the back ground to get rid of yapstone. Yapstone in retalition have slapped on a 3% charge as they know their days are numbered. Homeaway will also add that charge eventually. I read somehwere that HA are now charging up to 21% in all fees.................

http://www.vhrnetwork.com/news.14?fbcli ... wxfniLnZVM
newtimber
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Post by newtimber »

I see on other sites that the terms and conditions have also been updated and that if the guest complains that the property is not as described or if there is any other issue, then you authorise HA to refund the guest’s fees. Note that it is if the guest complains not whether there is any truth in the guest’s complaints.
I’m no longer with them and so cannot see their current terms and conditions so don’t know if this is correct.
AndrewH
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Post by AndrewH »

newtimber wrote:I see on other sites that the terms and conditions have also been updated and that if the guest complains that the property is not as described or if there is any other issue, then you authorise HA to refund the guest’s fees. Note that it is if the guest complains not whether there is any truth in the guest’s complaints.
I’m no longer with them and so cannot see their current terms and conditions so don’t know if this is correct.
I managed to find HA(UK)'s terms and conditions for owners at: https://www.homeaway.co.uk/info/about-u ... conditions dated 15th. December 2018, and I think that is the latest version. Owners are referred to as "Partners" :roll: although on a first reading I think "Victim" would apply better. I didn't see anything about an automatic refund based simply on a guest's complaint (whether justified or not). IMO doing that would be quite unlawful. These t's and c's stress that HA are not a party to the contract, which can only exist directly between the owner and the guest. So withholding funds from an owner and repaying it to the guest, based only on HA's judgement of a situation, is not in their remit.
zebedee
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Location: yorkshire dales

Post by zebedee »

These t's and c's stress that HA are not a party to the contract, which can only exist directly between the owner and the guest. So withholding funds from an owner and repaying it to the guest, based only on HA's judgement of a situation, is not in their remit.
Andrew, is that a legally correct statement to say that the contract is between the owner and the guest? If the guest has paid HA the money, then isn’t the contract between the person who received the payment and the guest?
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roxytoo
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Post by roxytoo »

''Notwithstanding the foregoing, in the event a Guest provides correct notice to the website the Property was booked through within 24 hours of the scheduled check in that the Property is not as described, or there is some other issue with the Property, You authorize us to return the Accommodation Fees to the Guest. You also agree that we may, in accordance with the cancellation policy selected by You and reflected in the relevant Property listing, refund to the Guest the portion of the Accommodation Fees specified in the applicable cancellation policy. ''
Swales
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Advance payments home away

Post by Swales »

I have just spoken to my designated point of contact at home away regarding this new payment system.
As I currently receive advance payments from Yapstone he assured me I will be eligible for advanced payments once I sign up to home away payments.
I have done so and the email received confirms this.
Although I was told the new advanced payments system may not be up and running for another 45 days.
Equally any existing books fall under the remit of yapstone so payment for those will be made after check in.
Fortunately most of my payments for this season have already been disbursed. I only have 3 bookings for next year and and they are relatively small so not an issue.
AndrewH
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Post by AndrewH »

roxytoo wrote:''Notwithstanding the foregoing, in the event a Guest provides correct notice to the website the Property was booked through within 24 hours of the scheduled check in that the Property is not as described, or there is some other issue with the Property, You authorize us to return the Accommodation Fees to the Guest. You also agree that we may, in accordance with the cancellation policy selected by You and reflected in the relevant Property listing, refund to the Guest the portion of the Accommodation Fees specified in the applicable cancellation policy. ''
This is the language I was looking for, roxytoo, but it can't have come from the HA(UK) t's and c's, as updated on 15/12/18, which is the document I was looking at. The reason for saying this is that in 'my document' a "Guest" is defined there as a "Traveller" and there is no definition there of "Accommodation Fees". I might explain that in contracts like these, where one finds a common noun starting with a capital letter in the middle of a sentence it means that that word (or phrase) has been previously defined in the document with a very specific meaning.

Roxytoo, are you able to say where your quote comes from and is there a date for it?
AndrewH
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Post by AndrewH »

zebedee wrote:Andrew, is that a legally correct statement to say that the contract is between the owner and the guest? If the guest has paid HA the money, then isn’t the contract between the person who received the payment and the guest?
I believe it is legally correct, zebedee. As I see it, there are two parallel contracts in existence. One is a letting contract between the owner and the guest, and the other is an agency contract between the owner and HomeAway for the collection of the rent. Basically HA are dressed up rent collectors, who should be working entirely on the owner's behalf. :lol:
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