Coronavirus - is it affecting your bookings?

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apexblue
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Post by apexblue »

Refunding 100% for April and referring guests in May to their insurer and will reaccess then.
It is better to remain quiet and have one think you are stupid, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt....

The biggest mistake we make in life is thinking we have time.
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Vera
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Post by Vera »

We advised our 2 April bookings to contact their insurance providers, one received a refund the other obviously didn't have insurance, we offered a discount on a future booking but he started a complaint procedure against us and we are about to refund his 225€, it started to get a bit aggressive so we would not want them here in the future and for such a small amount it seemed the best option.
May was empty.
Our June guests have insurance but aren't covered by it and we have offered to use their deposit against a future booking, they seem happy. Our July guests have already moved their dates to 2021.
So future policy for August etc is to raise the insurance question and as this is unlikely to cover them then to move dates to next year.
With zero income we hope we don't have to make more refunds.
Marks
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Post by Marks »

roxytoo wrote:For bookings that have not paid the balance is anyone refunding the non refundable deposit taken at the beginning of the booking?
No. And I have not refunded some balances either just offered them to move to later this year or next.
Some guests just need a sympathetic pat. On the head. With a hammer.
newtimber
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Post by newtimber »

Marks wrote:
roxytoo wrote:For bookings that have not paid the balance is anyone refunding the non refundable deposit taken at the beginning of the booking?
No. And I have not refunded some balances either just offered them to move to later this year or next.
In the UK, the government has ordered us to close, so we are unable to provide the accommodation that the guest has paid for. As we owners are effectively cancelling the booking, not the guest, I don't see how we could justify keeping the deposit.
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roxytoo
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Post by roxytoo »

Surely its the government that has cancelled the booking. Guests should have travel insurance and there are quite a few that are paying out.
zebedee
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Post by zebedee »

I think the situation is different in the UK.
A lot of people will book UK holidays and either don’t heed the advice to pay out a couple of £ on insurance, or think the insurance linked to bank accounts is only for overseas travel.

(But take a look at the link in the post today about Sykes - the Facebook page makes fascinating and scary reading about what Sykes are doing about the “insurance” that they sold guests!!!!!)

In the UK, we have been told that there may be some support from the government. This won’t materialise until April if it does happen.

So far guests have been happy to defer holidays, which I am grateful for as the refund costs would be high, but some have requested dates later this year. I don’t know what the outcome will be if those dates cannot be available either when we get there.
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roxytoo
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Post by roxytoo »

As far as I know rental income is not covered anywhere unless you have specific insurance. Its not self employment. The government wont help with that
zebedee
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Post by zebedee »

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... businesses

It was promised in the Budget Roxytoo. There are conditions though, such as you have to be getting relief from Business Rates etc, you will see lower down on the link I’ve enclosed.

It is discussed more in another thread, under the UK one I think. I’m feeling cautious about it, and want to wait and see what happens.
AndrewH
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Post by AndrewH »

I am not taking my personal or a moral stance here, but just a cold legal one. I do believe that if a contract (terms and conditions) with a guest states in black and white that an initial deposit taken is non-refundable with no ifs or buts, then it is lawfully non-refundable.

I also think that if one's contract with the guest contains a general 'force majeure' clause - the familiar clause which protects one against such things as lightning strikes, riot, civil commotion etc. etc. - then government legislation preventing an owner from performing his/her contract, which in normal circumstance would be perfectly legitimate, is a force majeure and thereby an owner's liability under the contract can be avoided.
Sunbeam
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Post by Sunbeam »

roxytoo wrote:For bookings that have not paid the balance is anyone refunding the non refundable deposit taken at the beginning of the booking?
We are not refunding. Our cancellation policy is black and white and we also advise insurance is taken out at the time of booking.

Write a balanced standard message to all your guests, so they know they are being treated equally. Explain in plain English why it isn't possible to shift dates, offer credits, make exceptions etc.

It is not fair for some guests to go through the insurance that they wisely took out, and for others who didn't take out insurance be treated differently. And why should owners take the place of insurers. Also - some guests might prefer to move their dates to avoid the hassle of an insurance claim - which is not fair on owners or other guests.

It is really hard as we are naturally a "fluffy" business that do all we can to please our guests and be personable and kind – but this situation is far from "fluffy".
SPJ
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Post by SPJ »

Sorry sunbeam, but I don't understand your comment. Why is moving dates "not fair" on owners or other guests?
I'm only too happy if my guests who at the moment are unlikely to be able to come on the dates they originally wanted, say that they would still like to come but in the late autumn this year, or over Christmas, or in 2021. That means I get to keep their deposit and their repeat business.
Sunbeam
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Post by Sunbeam »

SPJ wrote:Sorry sunbeam, but I don't understand your comment. Why is moving dates "not fair" on owners or other guests?
I'm only too happy if my guests who at the moment are unlikely to be able to come on the dates they originally wanted, say that they would still like to come but in the late autumn this year, or over Christmas, or in 2021. That means I get to keep their deposit and their repeat business.
Moving dates is fraught with all sorts of issues.

- What if people can't get the dates they want and then want a refund - and too late to claim on their insurance.
- Moving dates in effect means a reduction in income next year - if your deposit is 25%, it's in effect a 25% discount. They should claim on their insurance
- Moving a date will be considered a new booking by an insurance company, and they may not cover covid-19 related issue in future - we don't know what the future holds
- what if people complain that the date they want is cheaper and they want a refund on that
- It is not fair on other guests who have gone to the trouble of taking out insurance

I don't think that the "moving dates" option is quite as straight forward as it seems - but other owners will have a different approach

Ultimately - we have a cancellation policy and we should not feel guilty about adhering to it
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CSE
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Post by CSE »

Sunbeam wrote:
SPJ wrote:Sorry sunbeam, but I don't understand your comment. Why is moving dates "not fair" on owners or other guests?
I'm only too happy if my guests who at the moment are unlikely to be able to come on the dates they originally wanted, say that they would still like to come but in the late autumn this year, or over Christmas, or in 2021. That means I get to keep their deposit and their repeat business.
Moving dates is fraught with all sorts of issues.

- What if people can't get the dates they want and then want a refund - and too late to claim on their insurance.
- Moving dates in effect means a reduction in income next year - if your deposit is 25%, it's in effect a 25% discount. They should claim on their insurance
- Moving a date will be considered a new booking by an insurance company, and they may not cover covid-19 related issue in future - we don't know what the future holds
- what if people complain that the date they want is cheaper and they want a refund on that
- It is not fair on other guests who have gone to the trouble of taking out insurance

I don't think that the "moving dates" option is quite as straight forward as it seems - but other owners will have a different approach

Ultimately - we have a cancellation policy and we should not feel guilty about adhering to it
Points which you may not have thought about.
What if the customer has taken out insurance but that insurance will not over them.
Moving dates does not mean less income. It surely means you have a guarantee of some sort of income. Who knows what the travel industry will be like after this. Even you have written similar words!
The world is not fair, especially at the moment.
I just give the money back. The guests may not be around to enjoy a vacation in the future. You may not be around to give the guest a vacation.
We do not know when normality* is going to return.
Never try to out-stubborn your guests.
SPJ
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Post by SPJ »

CSE wrote:
The world is not fair, especially at the moment.
I just give the money back. The guests may not be around to enjoy a vacation in the future. You may not be around to give the guest a vacation.
We do not know when normality* is going to return.
Hear, hear CSE.
Last edited by SPJ on Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Bassman
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Post by Bassman »

CSE wrote: Points which you may not have thought about.
What if the customer has taken out insurance but that insurance will not over them.
Moving dates does not mean less income. It surely means you have a guarantee of some sort of income. Who knows what the travel industry will be like after this. Even you have written similar words!
The world is not fair, especially at the moment.
I just give the money back. The guests may not be around to enjoy a vacation in the future. You may not be around to give the guest a vacation.
We do not know when normality* is going to return.
For us moving dates certainly will mean less income, put simply 1 years income will be spread across 2 years. And if your running cost (particularly taxes) are around 50% of your income for the next 2 years we will have no profit over expense for that period. If you live on that profit, well enough said!
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