Offering Cooking Instructions -- Local Cuisine?

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Partridge
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Post by Partridge »

I think you need to simplify this as much as possible.

1) Sit down with Diogo and come up with a number of menus which would work for 'x' amount of people ie 4/6/8/10.

2) Price the menus up accordingly at cost to buy ingredients. Maybe add 20 euros on top for his time to buy ingredients.
Alternatively add 40 euros on top if they are shopping with him, as it would take longer.

At this stage you would have a workable list to price from regarding the food on offer.

3) Does it matter whether 4 help 10 eat or whatever, at the end of the day he will spend several hours in the kitchen with help (make sure everyone understands it's muck in, NOT chef service), so maybe a simple one price would suffice, maybe 40 euros.

I make that, that he earns 80 euros if he took them shopping and helped them cook, or maybe 60 euros if he shot out to do the shopping in advance (probably when he shops for himself anyway), which he could do if there was an established list of menus to choose from already.

He doesn't charge for time involved in eating with them but if he's a sociable chap then that's part of the fun, yes. He leaves them to buy their own wine, maybe some suggestions can go on the menu.

Maybe my prices are way out but I would be happy with 60 to 80 euros cash for around 5 or 6 hours of my time, plus hopefully an evening of good company thrown in. If I were the guest it would work out around 15 to 20 euros each for 4 at the dearest and a lot cheaper for 8 or 10 people plus of course the ingredients.

Having digested all that, pardon the pun, it would seem more profitable for Diogo and cheaper for guests if the option to go shopping with him wasn't there but again that depends on what he wants to get out of it himself. Maybe he should just pop in for a quick chat, decide on menu chosen and point them in the right direction saying 'see you later for the cooking' or charge 'x' to go and shop on his own, everyone feels more relaxed having already met too.

:wink:
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A-two
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Post by A-two »

Definitely more work to cook for 10 than 6. More bags to carry home, more to chop and slice, more plated food to arrange, more to clear up (I assume he will be doing that part by the way). Do you have to discriminate between those who are taking the demonstration/cooking class and those who are joining the meal? I'd be tempted not to do that because it could get complicated and I would try to keep it simple.

If you think that he can manage cooking and serving for 10, then agree that as a maximum number and ask them to choose 5 of their number to participate in the food shopping/ demonstration part of it. They may choose a different 5 to do the shopping, and the other 5 for the cooking class/ demo. That way, if one drops out, it doesn't affect your bottom line and they can draw straws if the numbers rise.

I may have confused your plans, but E50 per head + cost of food doesn't sound unreasonable, with a minimum charge of E400. A complimentary bottle of dessert wine and after dinner mints (or whatever you do in Portugal!), would be a nice surprise for them at the end.

I'm sure a good chef in Lisbon earns a lot more than that in a night, so like you say, you don't want to underprice or he wouldn't want to do it again and they might think they are getting the busboy!

To get it into perspective, I think Lydia charges something like $10,000 for a private dinner party for 10, but then Diogo doesn't have his own TV show (yet!) and I'm sure that includes everything, food and wine and a few people to help serve and clear up.
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debk
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Post by debk »

Thanks again for all the input!

I'm going to repeat/clarify a few things, because some suggestions are great (and will be helpful for anyone considering something similiar in the future) but not really applicable to this situation:

1. These guests are split across two rental houses, located across the street from each other. Max occupancy at each is 6 people.

2. The guests specifically requested that they go shopping in order to learn more about how/why to purchase certain items. They also asked to go shopping for wines to learn what/why to purchase. (Diogo added the cheese shopping/training, which I'm sure they will also love.)

3. The # of participants in the cooking part is limited to 5 because of the size of the kitchen and the house: there is kitchen space for only 3 folks to be involved at one time.

4. At first, the non-participants were going to spend the day doing something else and eating out. It seems clear from emails that they have absolutely no interest in cooking nor shopping for foodstuffs. However, the remaining folks now want to have dinner brought to them over at the other house. So all the cooking would be done in one place with half the food transported across the street. Neither house is equipped to seat 10 people for dinner.

4. Diogo already made a list of appetizers and main dishes for them to choose from. (1-3 appetizers; 1 main dish)

Joanna, excellent point about cleaning up. :shock: I guess Diogo will have to take responsibility for this... hmmm. So glad you mentioned it.

If things go well and Diogo wants to do it again, I'm continuing to think this could be a very fun offering for our guests!

Looking forward to more input.... the variety of opinions is great.
debk
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debk
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Post by debk »

Forgot to add: the complimentary bottle of dessert wine -- Port, of course! -- is a wonderful idea. Diogo will love that.
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A-two
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Post by A-two »

Thanks for clarifying, I had a muddled vision of my own making! Now I get it, it sounds like Diogo needs at least one assistant to help with the other house, transporting food, serving wine and cleaning up. He can't be in two places at once. You need someone to look after the guests in the other house, to keep them informed of possible delays, to come over at the right time and pick up the food, take it back and serve it. That person could also help will clearing tables, serving wines and cleaning up in at least one, or possibly both houses. Maybe you could help serve and have someone else to clean? Or maybe the kicthens are too small, in which case, it may be too big of a job for one person to manage.
Last edited by A-two on Sat Nov 04, 2006 8:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Nessie
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Post by Nessie »

debk wrote: 4. Diogo already made a list of appetizers and main dishes for them to choose from. (1-3 appetizers; 1 main dish)

debk
What about dessert?
Has he priced his menue, ok cost can vary slightly on the day but you need to know your costing , then apply your margin .

The other 5 guests that are in the other house , should be charged restaurant prices for the meal as Diogo will only be serving them the meal and then back to the other house, unless he plans on spliting his time between the 2 which will really not work. The other 5 pay for the meal plus a fee for diogo time and demo.
Its not going to be easy for him having the two houses to watch over, what if the other group need something , if they dont have his wit then finish the meal much sooner than the first set of guests, this sounds a bit messy
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Post by A-two »

Nessie wrote:this sounds a bit messy
I agree with Nessie. The other 5 want their cake and eat it... :lol: Debk, maybe you should just say no to the extra 5 in the other house, because it could go horribly wrong and that would be a great shame, especially as this is the first time. He really needs to focus on his one group of people without the distraction of the others. Maybe he could cook for them another night or you could find a second chef. Either that, or it has to be a stand up buffet, where they can all be in the one place.
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Post by Nessie »

Ok Lets not forget Diogo is not a professional cook.

i have just found this on the web they charge 225 euro for the day

Professional & Fun Cooking Classes in Oporto with Famed Chef


Overview
VIP Cooking Classes in Oporto at 5*Porto Palacios

In Oporto, we have launched exciting new Portuguese Cooking Classes at the famed 5* Porto Palacio Hotel (with Helio Loureiro, Portugal's most famous chef).

"Atlantic Flavors" are the theme of these professional cooking sessions with Helio Loureiro, Portugal's pre-eminent Chef du Jour. Helio, head chef of 5* Porto Palacios Hotel, cooks for the Portuguese elite, for politicians and aristocrats, for VIP Gourmet Groups and for top culinary establishments.

Helio has contributed to various Gastronomic books including "Recipes to accompany Port Wine" and "Gastronomia e Vinho Verde" (in Portuguese). Cellar Tours customers now have the privilege of learning about Portuguese cuisine with Helios.

Cooking classes can be arranged, for a minimum/maximum 8/15 participants. Your gourmet afternoon begins at the 5* Porto Palacio hotel, where your famed chef will greet you and present you with your uniforms for the day.

You will be guided through a series of cooking presentations (heavy on the fish) where you will actively participate in the design of your own lunch. There is a written component to the culinary classes and Helio will encourage you to take notes. At the end of the course, you'll relax in the restaurant, feasting on the fruit of your own efforts You will receive a Culinary Diploma at the end of the meal.

What's Included:

Professional cooking classes with Portugal's most highly esteemed chefs, all food and four matched wines, for the afternoon, Keepsake Culinary Diploma

Cooking Classes in Oporto: Min 8 pax, Max: 15 pax Price per person: 225

So i feel pitching it at what i said earlier seems fair, depending on the final costing of the meal.
Have to agree with Joanna, i would not cook for the other five on the same night, as they are not interested in the cooking and shopping then he could just do a meal for them one night
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debk
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Post by debk »

Thanks so much for the research, Nessie! Not sure how I missed Helio in my searches.

Helio may be famous but €225 seems like a lot for a MINIMUM of 8 people; sure doesn't provide much interaction.

One big difference to me from a standard cooking lesson seems to be the "up-front" investment and personalization required: pre-assessing the cooking utensils required for their chosen recipes versus what's available at the rentals; creating the customized shopping lists based upon their meal choices & number of diners; taking everyone shopping for fresh fish, vegies, wines, cheeses and dessert and answering all their questions along the way. That seems like a major part of the process and ensuring it all goes well. Or maybe it seems major to me because of my cooking deficiences. :? I can't imagine it taking less than 3 hours for just the morning's shopping, especially given travel between the houses, market and gourmet store.

(Dessert will be purchased at the same gourmet store as the wines/cheeses.)

As for the second house: Diogo would focus on House#1 and the cooking instructions therein. THE GUESTS want to smuggle half the food across the street, rather like instant leftovers. :) Diogo would be completely uninvolved in House#2 (except for cooking more food) and wouldn't even set foot inside it. Does that sound like a real problem? Adding the extra eaters seemed simple to me... but I'm obviously learning a lot through all your gracious, knowledgeable help!
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Post by A-two »

Deb,
You're very capable, so I'm sure whatever you decide, it will be spectacular. I just have this picture in my mind of the second hungry five sitting down at an empty table patiently waiting with noone looking after them, and not knowing what's going on. One wanders over the road to see how near it is to being ready and can they help carry anything over, and before you know it, all 5 are running to and fro trying to help.
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debk
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Post by debk »

before you know it, all 5 are running to and fro trying to help.
:shock: :lol: :lol:

well, that would be a night to remember!
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Post by centime »

This all sound like fun! Idea for the future would be to come up my area on the number 9 bus from Rossio to the big market at Campo de Ourique - across the road to the gourmet shop, now sellling organic veg and fruit at Rui's suggestion. There is also Gourmet Glamour shop in Ferreira Borges plus a big Pingo Doce all close by. Not to mention the famous wine shop in my street that has also opened a gourmet shop on the other side of the road. There are also a couple of specialist cooking equipment shops - all within a couple of blocks. One of them belongs to Carlos my friend who also runs cooking classes in Portuguese, if we has a big enough group, 10 I am sure would be fine, he would do one in English. I think I am off to do one of those little Google maps with the suggestions! Let me know how it all goes.
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Post by Ciapolin »

Ciapolin wrote:
For a half day they charge 70 euro and 100 euro for a full day.


Is that per head?
Sorry , yes I forgot to add it is per person, with a minimum of 4 people.
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Post by Giddy Goat »

Just found this topic; fascinating discussion - so I am posting here to ensure I get notification of another contribution on the subject! :D

Good luck Deb, and anyone else who decides to give the idea a whirl! We have a local lady who offers a catering service (meals prepared at her home, delivered and served chez nous) so I might just see if she'd be interested in a similar teach-in! But I'd be a little worried about my kitchen; in an ideal world it would need to be all stainless steel! I can imagine that in a group, there may be times when it all gets a bit frenetic, with food bits flying here and there, fat splashing, stuff being trodden in ... it would be good to hear from chefs who have done this sort of thing in their homes.
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debk
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Post by debk »

Going off-topic: does anyone know how to change the name of a thread?

I realized last night that the title of this one is misleading and I'm feeling a bit silly about that. :oops: The guests don't want cooking instructions, they want cultural immersion... with shopping/cooking merely being the delivery vehicle.

The difference between a class by a professional chef and/or a meal catered by someone to the house -versus- what they've requested (time with a friendly someone who will talk them through a day in the life of a Portuguese shopper/cook) would be analagous to the difference between staying in a hotel and a neighborhood vacation rental.

I woke up this morning feeling truly thankful for all the input and the options. Diogo is perfect: an ex-marketing exec, great cook, total extrovert, currently going back to graduate school (cinema production, too cool) with lots of time on his hands, world-traveller (his 83-year-old grandmother still receives invitations to sing fado around the world and he often accompanies her), has an insider's track on the Lisbon music scene, was born/raised in the neighborhood and *loves* Portugal.

If this goes well for the guests and Diogo, I'm seriously considering offering it as a standard option for all our guests.

I'm also going to talk to Diogo about doing a Fado Night since he is Amália Rodrigues' (http://www.geocities.com/cecskater1/) nephew. Our most common request, behind restaurant recommendations, is for fado recommendations.

Got my marketing hat on now. 2007 might be great fun! (If we aren't shut down by tourism license problems... :roll: )
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