Lay My Hat home page Lay My Hat Forum
The forum for holiday rental owners


 
  FAQFAQ    SearchSearch    MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups    RegisterRegister  
  ProfileProfile    Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages    Log inLog in 

Heating without mains gas
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Lay My Hat Forum Index ->
Just starting out
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Tomsk



Joined: 24 Jul 2020
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2020 11:26 am    Post subject: Heating without mains gas Reply with quote

I am currently buying a small 'barn' with PP for conversion in Wales.

There is no mains gas, and no exterior space for oil, so looks like I am stuck with electric heating.

What options are there?

Thanks
_________________
At the start of our journey!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
zebedee



Joined: 12 Sep 2014
Posts: 1189
Location: yorkshire dales

PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2020 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rointe radiators are excellent!

Stayed in a converted barn that has them and they were great. Get the models that allow you to control them from an app on your phone. They are eco friendly, have open door / window sensors so if lazy guests just open a window when they are too warm the radiator turns off and you donít pay to heat the universe.

They also have movement sensors on them which again turn the radiator off or down when guests go out for the day.

I was so impressed we actually changed our oil fired central heating system to these radiators in January this year. They look nice as well, and very quick and easy to fit.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Nuthatch



Joined: 29 Mar 2010
Posts: 194
Location: Yorkshire

PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2020 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A ground source heat pump with underfloor heating. No radiators so furniture layout is much easier. Expensive to install, but unbelievably cheap to run. Hugely energy efficient (as long as your insulation is up to scratch).

A much cheaper option from an installation point of view would be electric underfloor heating, but this would only be cost-efficient if your insulation/draft-proofing is absolutely top-notch.
You'd probably also need to look at a ventilation system.

Hope that helps!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
greenbarn



Joined: 30 May 2009
Posts: 6144
Location: The Westmorland Dales, Cumbria

PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nuthatch wrote:
A ground source heat pump with underfloor heating. No radiators so furniture layout is much easier. Expensive to install, but unbelievably cheap to run. Hugely energy efficient (as long as your insulation is up to scratch).

A much cheaper option from an installation point of view would be electric underfloor heating, but this would only be cost-efficient if your insulation/draft-proofing is absolutely top-notch.
You'd probably also need to look at a ventilation system.

Hope that helps!


Another vote for a ground source heat pump, although I believe that air source are now much better than they were some years ago and could be worth a look - much cheaper to install. Check out renewable heat source grants for both.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
newtimber



Joined: 24 Nov 2012
Posts: 1809
Location: Brighton

PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

zebedee wrote:
Rointe radiators are excellent!


I was so impressed we actually changed our oil fired central heating system to these radiators in January this year. They look nice as well, and very quick and easy to fit.


Unfortunately Rointe heaters do not do well on the EPC as they count the same as an electric room heater. If you then need to improve the EPC for example sale or change to permanent let, you have to change to night storage. https://www.electricradiatorsdirect.co.uk/news/electric-heating-vs-epc-ratings/
_________________
Newtimber Holiday Cottages Facebook Page
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
CSE



Joined: 06 Nov 2006
Posts: 4257
Location: Galicia

PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Something to think about;
How much land do you need for heat source pump? I know the answer depends, but it is stated that there is "no exterior space for oil". That really needs clarifying, but at face value there is not a great deal outside space.
_________________
Never try to out-stubborn your guests.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
greenbarn



Joined: 30 May 2009
Posts: 6144
Location: The Westmorland Dales, Cumbria

PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CSE wrote:
Something to think about;
How much land do you need for heat source pump?


Enough to sink a borehole for a GSHP, none for an ASHP.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
J B



Joined: 09 Oct 2007
Posts: 93
Location: We live in England and have rental properties in N Wales and Paphos, Cyprus

PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If there's no space for oil, surely, there can't be room for ground source ... can there.

All electric heaters are cheap to buy and expensive to use.
Don't be fooled by the magic heaters with 'moon dust' in them - 1Kw of electricity will give out 1Kw of heat whether you use a simple £20 heater from Argos or a £500 (?) Fishler (for example) one.

Ask on the MSE forums, they will advise better.
_________________
J B
www.jamesbourne.co.uk
http://www.holidaylettings.co.uk/rentals/tala/199631
https://www.sts-holidays.co.uk/property.html?id=4036_ST
https://www.sts-holidays.co.uk/property.html?id=4037_ST
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
zebedee



Joined: 12 Sep 2014
Posts: 1189
Location: yorkshire dales

PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

J B wrote:


All electric heaters are cheap to buy and expensive to use.
Don't be fooled by the magic heaters with 'moon dust' in them - 1Kw of electricity will give out 1Kw of heat whether you use a simple £20 heater from Argos or a £500 (?) Fishler (for example) one.
.


I beg to differ. Take a look at the Rointe D series. They are very low energy to run but provide excellent heating.

Re Newtimbers point about the EPC, well Iíve never been that impressed with EPCs. That article was written in 2018. I think it would be subject to challenge if I actually wanted an EPC. My property is 270 years old, solid stone - no cavity anything, a proper cottage but highly desirable in terms of saleability.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CSE



Joined: 06 Nov 2006
Posts: 4257
Location: Galicia

PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2020 6:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

greenbarn wrote:
CSE wrote:
Something to think about;
How much land do you need for heat source pump?


Enough to sink a borehole for a GSHP, none for an ASHP.



I thought the space required for machine access needed to to sink a borehole is larger than siting an oil tank.
Personally, still waiting for confirmation from the OP on further details.
_________________
Never try to out-stubborn your guests.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tomsk



Joined: 24 Jul 2020
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2020 8:41 am    Post subject: Exterior space Reply with quote

To clarify, whilst the property has a double garage, the perimeter of the building is the extent of the property.

Thanks,
_________________
At the start of our journey!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
newtimber



Joined: 24 Nov 2012
Posts: 1809
Location: Brighton

PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2020 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

zebedee wrote:

Re Newtimbers point about the EPC, well Iíve never been that impressed with EPCs. That article was written in 2018. I think it would be subject to challenge if I actually wanted an EPC. My property is 270 years old, solid stone - no cavity anything, a proper cottage but highly desirable in terms of saleability.


A poor EPC does effect house prices. Just google it. I know EPCs aren't accurate, but people shy away from properties with poor EPCs not only because of the perceived high heating costs but also because they fear that regulations may be brought in to require sellers/buyers to improve the EPC when the property is sold.
You can choose who you like to do the EPC so you cannot challenge it - only choose another company to see whether they can improve the EPC. The EPC software now gives better EPCs for solid walls, but not for electric radiators as they use expensive day-time electric rather than economy 7.
_________________
Newtimber Holiday Cottages Facebook Page
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Cymraes



Joined: 07 Jul 2015
Posts: 488
Location: North Wales

PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2020 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having been present for the EPC for my own stone house I agree that they are a bad joke.

It was pure guesswork and woefully inadequate to cope with a complicated building like mine.

However they are a legal requirement to sell. I believe that in Scotland they are also now a requirement for holiday lets and I think in England and Wales if you charge for heating separately.


Edit - just looked at the cottage one

It recommends cavity wall insulation - we have solid stone walls

It recommends a condensing boiler - we have one!

It recommends a room thermostat - yup have one of those and radiator thermostats too

PV panels to heat the hot water - hard with a combi boiler
_________________
Caro
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CSE



Joined: 06 Nov 2006
Posts: 4257
Location: Galicia

PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2020 12:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Exterior space Reply with quote

Tomsk wrote:
To clarify, whilst the property has a double garage, the perimeter of the building is the extent of the property.

Thanks,

Thanks for the conformation.
No land? Where are your guest going to sit outside? Is it going to be suitable for let?
_________________
Never try to out-stubborn your guests.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
newtimber



Joined: 24 Nov 2012
Posts: 1809
Location: Brighton

PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2020 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cymraes wrote:


Edit - just looked at the cottage one

It recommends cavity wall insulation - we have solid stone walls

It recommends a condensing boiler - we have one!

It recommends a room thermostat - yup have one of those and radiator thermostats too

PV panels to heat the hot water - hard with a combi boiler


You need to get someone else to do the EPC. The modern ones want internal wall insulation, floor insulation, solar panels and wind turbines!
_________________
Newtimber Holiday Cottages Facebook Page
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Lay My Hat Forum Index ->
Just starting out
All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group