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New Local Lockdown Restrictions.
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Drax



Joined: 21 Jul 2016
Posts: 151
Location: Yorkshire Dales

PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:58 am    Post subject: New Local Lockdown Restrictions. Reply with quote

Does anyone know how or if the new local lockdown restrictions affect FHL's and their owners?
For instance if the FHL is in a 'red zone' does that mean that the FHL has to close down until further notice?
Similarly if a potential guest lives in a 'red zone' does that mean they cannot travel to a FHL for their holiday?
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zebedee



Joined: 12 Sep 2014
Posts: 1195
Location: yorkshire dales

PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The rule of six and number of households does affect larger self catering properties. Those owners have had to ask guests to cancel some of their party or guests have cancelled altogether and are entitled to a full refund.
Some Owners of larger properties are trying different ways to continue with an income such as closing down part of a larger property and advertising it for reduced numbers (up to 6) only.

For your other questions, the local restrictions are just that, they are local ones, so you would need to check online to see if any guests who have booked would be breaking rules by coming.
I have not seen any direction for self catering properties to close again. I think there would be a reluctance to do that. If a direction is given to the whole country for a business to close, there would be demands for compensation and the bill for the government spending over this pandemic is already eye watering.
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shamac



Joined: 04 Jun 2009
Posts: 128
Location: northumberland

PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm very confused about this, we are in a lockdown area (Northumberland) if people are travelling to our area from a non lockdown area can more than 1 household mix?
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CSE



Joined: 06 Nov 2006
Posts: 4262
Location: Galicia

PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Confused? Even Boris is.
https://youtu.be/nLZdSlT6p8A
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Drax



Joined: 21 Jul 2016
Posts: 151
Location: Yorkshire Dales

PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

zebedee wrote:

For your other questions, the local restrictions are just that, they are local ones, so you would need to check online to see if any guests who have booked would be breaking rules by coming.
I have not seen any direction for self catering properties to close again. I think there would be a reluctance to do that. If a direction is given to the whole country for a business to close, there would be demands for compensation and the bill for the government spending over this pandemic is already eye watering.


Hi Zebedee,
Thanks for this.
1/ You are stating that it is incumbent upon FHL owners to 'police' on who can or cannot come to their holiday cottage by checking where guests live.
Is this correct? If so this could involve paying back their deposits or full remittances and even becoming involved in disputes with your guests.
2/ If our businesses have to be closed, would we get compensation? Bearing in mind the Government has already paid out Ł10,000.00 to FHL owners at the beginning of this pandemic.
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zebedee



Joined: 12 Sep 2014
Posts: 1195
Location: yorkshire dales

PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Drax, I can only go by what I have read posted by other owners on the PASCUK site.
Firstly, we are required to still give a full refund if guests cant have their holiday owing to Covid. They may tell you they have to isolate and you have no proof they are being truthful but the refund is still due.

My understanding is that If your property is large enough to take more than one household, then you may need to consider if the rules are being broken. That is what the owners of larger properties are doing now.
Now, from my perspective, I don’t tend to get bookings from more than one household, so I haven’t paid too much attention to this, and others may advise you better than me.

Edited to add, no there is no mention of any more support from the government, although there are loans available (bounce back loans). The grant earlier this year is subject to tax.

On a personal basis, I don’t want anyone staying at my property who may be carrying the virus, as I like to stay there as well. so my additional temporary TCs say I will refund guests In full who can’t come owing to the virus. I know this is open to huge abuse, but so far no one has taken advantage.

I have tried to get a balance between people really needing a holiday and protecting everyone ( including my family). I constantly get enquiries for times where my website shows the property is not available. People are desperate for a change of scenery and to feel they have had a break.
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zebedee



Joined: 12 Sep 2014
Posts: 1195
Location: yorkshire dales

PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 5:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/indoor-inter-household-mixing-restricted-in-parts-of-the-north-east

An update on new restrictions, and this is where you will find further information in the future.
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Karen&John



Joined: 13 Aug 2017
Posts: 53
Location: Norfolk

PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for that link Zebedee.

We only sleep 6 but regularly get mixed households from different parts of the country.

I guess we have an equal responsibility in obeying the rules.

K&J
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Drax



Joined: 21 Jul 2016
Posts: 151
Location: Yorkshire Dales

PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got this from another source but it only applies to England.
See Section 3.3. It appears as owners we do not have to stringently 'police' who can or cannot come to our holiday homes with regard to Covid 19. That responsibility rests mainly with our guests.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-outbreak-faqs-what-you-can-and-cant-do/coronavirus-outbreak-faqs-what-you-can-and-cant-do#are-day-trips-and-holidays-ok-can-people-stay-in-second-homes
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zebedee



Joined: 12 Sep 2014
Posts: 1195
Location: yorkshire dales

PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would draw your attention to para 2.14 of your link which states,

Quote:
Hospitality businesses are also required to ensure there are no unlawful gatherings in their premises
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Drax



Joined: 21 Jul 2016
Posts: 151
Location: Yorkshire Dales

PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

zebedee wrote:
I would draw your attention to para 2.14 of your link which states,

Quote:
Hospitality businesses are also required to ensure there are no unlawful gatherings in their premises


Well spotted zebedee.
We still can't relax.
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greenbarn



Joined: 30 May 2009
Posts: 6147
Location: The Westmorland Dales, Cumbria

PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Karen&John wrote:
Thanks for that link Zebedee.

We only sleep 6 but regularly get mixed households from different parts of the country.

I guess we have an equal responsibility in obeying the rules.

K&J


There’s an additional issue with mixed households under the Rule of 6 (and before it in fact) which is that the size and layout of the property must enable appropriate distancing to be maintained indoors. In most places that immediately rules out two people from different households sharing a bedroom (unless you can get 2 metres between the beds), requires adequately spaced seating in living areas etc etc - all parts of the Covid RA we have to do.

As for “policing” guests, we have a responsibility to make reasonable efforts to ensure that the government rules are not being breached, which necessitates additional checks on the information guests supply at booking - including if where they are travelling from is an area with restrictions (not “lockdown”). If we’re not showing due diligence in those checks and guests breach the rules, we are responsible and can be fined or closed down.
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newtimber



Joined: 24 Nov 2012
Posts: 1815
Location: Brighton

PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

greenbarn wrote:

There’s an additional issue with mixed households under the Rule of 6 (and before it in fact) which is that the size and layout of the property must enable appropriate distancing to be maintained indoors. In most places that immediately rules out two people from different households sharing a bedroom (unless you can get 2 metres between the beds), requires adequately spaced seating in living areas etc etc - all parts of the Covid RA we have to do.



The same guests then go and eat out at a table of 6 and aren't socially distanced. I can't see pubs etc not allowing people to sit together on tables of 6 if they aren't from the same household and I'm sure the chairs aren't 2m apart. The fact is that if 2 households are in the same house, they are bound to not live in a Covid-secure way. The virus is going to be on the door handles, in the bathrooms etc
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Drax



Joined: 21 Jul 2016
Posts: 151
Location: Yorkshire Dales

PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What with differing local lockdowns, rules and restrictions across different regions and countries i.e. Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, where the rules keep changing daily, it is becoming difficult if not impossible to keep up-to-date with what is required for us to adhere to the law.
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greenbarn



Joined: 30 May 2009
Posts: 6147
Location: The Westmorland Dales, Cumbria

PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2020 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

newtimber wrote:
greenbarn wrote:

There’s an additional issue with mixed households under the Rule of 6 (and before it in fact) which is that the size and layout of the property must enable appropriate distancing to be maintained indoors. In most places that immediately rules out two people from different households sharing a bedroom (unless you can get 2 metres between the beds), requires adequately spaced seating in living areas etc etc - all parts of the Covid RA we have to do.



The same guests then go and eat out at a table of 6 and aren't socially distanced. I can't see pubs etc not allowing people to sit together on tables of 6 if they aren't from the same household and I'm sure the chairs aren't 2m apart. The fact is that if 2 households are in the same house, they are bound to not live in a Covid-secure way. The virus is going to be on the door handles, in the bathrooms etc


Agreed, but we are not responsible for what the guests choose to do. We are responsible for ensuring that our property is suitable for facilitating the distancing measures, and therefore to not accept bookings for which the property is unsuitable when we would knowingly be enabling an inevitable breach of the regulations. That responsibility has fines and the possibility of being closed down attached to it.
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