Come on - you can't be so penny pinching?

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Mountain Goat
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Come on - you can't be so penny pinching?

Post by Mountain Goat »

French punters just left after a couple of weeks - charming family of flexible size - leaving the place in seriously immaculate condition.

No squeaks about our anglophile deposit terms, perfect payments, dream guests.

However, during their stay, a picture leapt off the wall, and the frame/glass smashed.

Polite note of apology, 2 decent bottles of plonk, and 'please deduct the cost from our deposit'.

We'd like them back - and to have happy memories etc. Is it just too mean to deduct £50 or so? (£2k++ rental).

I think I know the answer, but would appreciate some opinions.

MG
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Normandy Cow
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Post by Normandy Cow »

As my husband is a picture framer, it would hardly cost us anything to fix, so in my case the answer would be "no, I wouldn't charge them!"

But even if this wasn't the case, on a 2k++ rental, and with such charming-sounding guests, no I still wouldn't charge them...

(And are you sure it is going to cost that much to repair? Seems a bit steep to me).
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Ben McNevis
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Post by Ben McNevis »

I certainly wouldn't deduct anything - but maybe that's because I'm such a nice guy.

Serously though, it's very hard to penalise anyone who apologises. Other guests might cost you the same amount in wear and tear which you don't really notice at the time.

In a total of 17 property-years of letting, we've only ever had 3 damages of any seriousness, and in the most serious one, (broken double-glazed window) we got the guests' insurers to pay.

In one of the other cases, I would have liked to have deducted from the deposit, but I had been far too hasty to return their deposit. Their damage was scorching from cigarette stubs on the uPVC threshold (in a non-smoking cottage). The other one, was a candle burning down and taking a circle of the outdoor plastic table with it. Fortunately, some crafty use of filler solved that one and they were lovely people anyway so I certainly didn't want to put them off coming back.
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Mouse
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Post by Mouse »

I'd say no - if your guests have shown respect for your property its an accident. I don't charge in those situations.

Mouse (who knows thats what MG was going to do anyway!? :) )
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Paul Carmel
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Post by Paul Carmel »

I would let it go it might tip the balance against a re-booking.
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Re: Come on - you can't be so penny pinching?

Post by la vache! »

Mountain Goat wrote: However, during their stay, a picture leapt off the wall, and the frame/glass smashed.
I wouldn't charge, they sound like perfect guests and accidents happen sometimes in renting. It doesn't sound like a lot of money to reframe the picture and as PC says, they may well book to stay again with you. I occasionally have pictures that fall off the wall, but I'm sure they do so of their own accord, nothing to do with the people staying at the time!
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Ju
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Post by Ju »

I wouldn't charge either. But once re-framed it may be worth attaching the picture to the wall with mirror plates so it doesn't happen again (on my list of things to do, but i haven't got around to it yet!)

They sound like the kind of guests I like!
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Rocket Rab
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Re: Come on - you can't be so penny pinching? NO, YOU CAN'T!

Post by Rocket Rab »

Mountain Goat wrote:...dream guests..
....deserve dream hosts...and here is another golden opportunity to buff up your DH image, MG: I know you already offer free weeks to guests plagued by atrocious weather...but maybe I should delete that?? :wink:
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Post by Big Sis.. »

Hi MG :) ...

As the others have said ...No deduction....and as theyvesaid as well...You being you wouldnt have done anyway....

You just want us to think your this hardnosed Businessman.....
No Chance :) :roll: .....Just look at your Avatar...and the way youve treated your Guests up to now :wink: ..

Now if theyd tried to hide it or said
'It wasnt us/Guv/Goat.....or weve been 'framed'
That would be different......

Nice people need to be treated nicely[Im a bit worried about them being of 'flexible size' though :roll: :o ]

And nice Goats even Nicer :wink: :roll: :lol:
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Post by A-two »

Arriving late to this thread, sorry. The only thing I would add is that as a general principal, the security deposit is there to cover damage due to negligence, not accidents. Nobody deliberately sets out to damage your property, so damage only usually falls into those two categories.

A dropped glass is an accident
indoor cushions left outside in a rainstorm is negligence

A picture falling off the wall in a home that has been returned to the owner in excellent condition in all other ways, would most likely fall into a third category - owner negligence/ oversight. Either the picture was not fixed properly or it was put in a place where it could easily be knocked - hence not a deductable cause in my book.

They know it wasn't any act of negligence on their part, but polite enough to have offered to pay anyway. Therefore, I wouldn't approach it as if you are making some kind of benevolant act in not charging them, but tell them straight it's not a chargeable event. They will appreciate your honesty.

Having a refund policy worked out that is not arbitrary or personal makes it easier to apply without hesitation, and also don't forget that how you deal with security deposits may also be governed by local laws.
Last edited by A-two on Thu Mar 15, 2007 8:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Ben McNevis
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Post by Ben McNevis »

What very clear thinking, Joanna. How do you do that?
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Mountain Goat
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Post by Mountain Goat »

Thanks, everyone, much appreciated, that's really made it crystal clear to us. Over this first year of renting we haven't made any deductions except 'phone, and with returning guests we're not asking for deposits (actually, there would be one exception to that).

MG
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Post by A-two »

BenFriman wrote:What very clear thinking, Joanna. How do you do that?
Thanks Ben, I ate two weetabix for breakfast... :) ... actually, it's my day job. I participate here as an owner of my own vacation rental home, and only discuss issues related to that one property here, but I'm also a Licensed Real Estate Broker in New York with my own company. As well as handling all aspects of residential, commercial and land sales, we do now offer professional property management services for other vacation rental owners as well.

That doesn't mean I know everything (I certainly don't) and it doesn't mean that whatever I say is going to apply to someone in another part of the world where laws and custom are different (it's quite likely it doesn't). Whatever suggestions I may give to others here are still only one personal opinion amongst many others of equal or greater value. If you happen to be in my area, then I would be able to give a professional opinion on which you could rely after a personal consultation, otherwise no ..... :)

Lay My Hat is a great learning tool for everyone including myself, simply because vacation rentals are still an emerging market and as such, nobody can possibly know everything. So I too am not shy to ask for suggestions here when something unforeseen presents itself.
Last edited by A-two on Fri Mar 16, 2007 1:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Partridge
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Post by Partridge »

Hi Joanna. It's probably too late for me to be thinking clearly but although I can clearly see the logic I'm afraid I have difficulty 'seeing' it.

Dropping a glass, spilling a drink, bumping into a table and knocking a lamp over, not looking where you are going and knocking a picture off a wall......can it not be said that someone is negligant for not being careful enough. I don't think I could package all the things that could cost an owner money to replace neatly enough into 'accident' or 'negligant' :oops:
Don't waste energy on things you can't change.

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Post by A-two »

Partride,
I understand what you're saying and agree there is a cumulative effect that may impact the judgement call. This is why it's important to take each scenario in context.

In this case, MG indicated they had left the home in immaculate condition apart from this one thing. That's not the same thing as a picture off the wall, a side lamp knocked over and broken, wine stain on carpet, missing linens and possibly 4 tons of rotting food left in the refrigerator as well. In that situation, can you include the broken picture glass as well as everything else?

Well, let's say this is the 3rd time the picture has fallen of the wall and the glass has broken. Do you think the owner ought to move it to a different wall or invest in proper hangers?

Common sense really and I know you have bags of that.... :)
Last edited by A-two on Fri Mar 16, 2007 1:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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