Fonts for Webpages

[Alan Knighting]

I think the subject of fonts for Web pages has been touched on in another thread. I seem to remember a warning that one should only use a very common font or what could be described as a system font. The reasoning being that the pages will only be rendered using the fonts resident on the recipient’s PC or Mac.

This seems to be a great weakness of the HTML system. Surely there must be many instances of a designer wanting to use a particular font so that the overall feel and appearance of a Website can be maintained. It is quite possible that rendering the pages using an alternative or system font would ruin the whole thing.

As someone who uses Adobe Acrobat, where embedding fonts into the pages is the norm, I wondered whether or not font embedding is an option in HTML. I found nothing in the help files for FrontPage, Dreamweaver or HotMetalPro so turned to an Internet search.

Wonders will never cease! It turns out that font embedding is quite possible within HTML, according to the following link:-

http://hotwired.lycos.com/webmonkey/des ... rial2.html

Not only are you told it is possible but you are also told how to do it.

Once the HTML limitation on fonts is cracked the following is a wonderful source of available fonts:-

http://www.myfonts.com/

The above links might be of interest to those who are building their own Websites. They might also be of interest to those involved in developing Tansy’s new Website – perhaps an example of where the overall feel and appearance is of great importance?

I am trying to re-invent the wheel? Is this all common knowledge? What do our artistic and our techi colleagues think?

Alan

[vrooje]

Hm... this tutorial looks a bit old; it makes no mention of Mozilla, only Netscape. I wonder if the technology has changed at all since then.

Overall it sounds like a really fantastic idea, but if I was browsing a page and an unsolicited download box appeared (as it would in one version of the font embedding), there's no way I would download it, and I would also assume the site was malicious. If I would do that, many other users would. And as a designer, if I don't require them to download something, it's my understanding that the font wouldn't show up in IE.

So... to me it seems like there's still a lot of work to be done. Menus, titles, and other infrequently-used categories are the only places I would use a non-standard font anyway, and it'll have to be made a lot easier on the user's side before I'd be willing to try it.

However, if the technology has improved, that could be interesting!

[charles]

It can be done using flash (or swish) - see example: thequeenshead.org - no downloads involved..

Charles

[vrooje]

no downloads involved..

At least, not unless the viewer doesn't have Flash!

[livinginitaly]

There's also the problem of 'copyright' regarding font embedding. In effect, you could be charged with illegal distribution everytime a new user visits your webpage

[Alan Knighting]

Brooke,

It does look as though progress towards embedding fonts into HTML code is a little slow. I have come across a couple more sites.

http://www.truedoc.com/webpages/intro/index.html

http://morovia.com/font/support/embed-font-web.asp

I know what you mean about having to download things but, if you want to use Flash you have to download it. Same thing applies to ActiveX and Java scripts so it’s not an unheard of thing to do. There’s a long way to go.

Menus, titles, and other infrequently-used categories are the only places I would use a non-standard font anyway

I guess there are two camps here. The first says “I think standards fonts do everything I could possibly want to do�. The second says “I would love to use non-standard fonts but in practice I can’t�. In other words “I would if I could but I can’t so I will not�. On second thoughts there is another camp which says “I will use non-standard fonts and damn the consequences�.

I must say that I rather resent the fact that some (few) fonts have become regarded as “standard� and every other font is regarded as “non-standard� In my opinion it is just not necessary. Overall, I think being able to use the font(s) of your choice would be a much better way forward. Mind you, it would result in even more particularly hideous Websites and there are plenty of them around.

Tony

As things stand you would have to buy a licence to use the fonts – not expensive but an additional cost.

Alan

[vrooje]

I know what you mean about having to download things but, if you want to use Flash you have to download it. Same thing applies to ActiveX and Java scripts so it’s not an unheard of thing to do. There’s a long way to go.

You're right, though -- if you're designing a site that needs to use Flash and ActiveX controls, there's no reason not to embed a font in it. But I'm old-school and I never use any of those... naturally I use Javascript where absolutely necessary, but not Java Applets, which do require a download. I've just never found it necessary.

Likewise I just use images where I need to freeze the font and Alt tags provide the text alternative, so that the links would still be useful in Lynx (and the keywords are still useful to Google).

Is there a "font lobby" which has resulted in some fonts being overlooked in favor of others? I thought it was just that there are certain fonts available on nearly all systems AND that look good on computer screens.

(It's kind of a moot point for me, since even so-called standard fonts are often not available in Linux. Even Times New Roman and Arial aren't the same.)

[Alan Knighting]

Brooke,

even so-called standard fonts are often not available in Linux. Even Times New Roman and Arial aren't the same.

I think the same applies for Mac users. So, when is a standard a standard? It's a shame that this "open" world of ours isn't really open at all. C'est la vie.

Alan

[charles]

At least, not unless the viewer doesn't have Flash!

I meant dodgy downloads - I imagine most people consider Flash to be a pain + suspect because it's a download it has to be big and will take forever. On the hand downloading a font is not an every day occurence so I guess in the PC safety culture that we're in (or supposed to be in) then 'most' people would be weary about downloading a font, and quite rightly so imho.

C.

[Sue Dyer]

web techie help request on fonts

A friend told me that you can make your webpage "force" a browser to chose the next font of your choice if the first font you've used isn't available. This was in the pub and he is a programmer and went all Stephen Hawkins on me when I asked how it was done .....

I use FrontPage, I've looked around the helpfiles and forums but no luck. Is this possible?

On fonts, I remember when you changed the font via the printer. My husband had one from work and it had 3 fonts on AND the choice of bold and italic... we were so impressed!

[vrooje]

Sue,

Your friend is definitely right, but most of the ways used to do this require that the font already be installed on the viewer's system. So if I force "Zapf Chancery" to appear in the usual way, you have to have Zapf Chancery installed in your fonts folder on your computer in order to see it.

It'd be interesting to know whether Mr. Hawking knows of another way around that!

Cheers!

[Sue Dyer]

Ah, I'm not going mad. Sorry, didn't explain properly.

He was saying that if I use a non system font (I like Eurostyle) then put a system font, i.e. Ariel etc as a second choice then the browser would pick this up.

Is it complex to say how it's done Brooke in FrontPage?

[vrooje]

Good question!

I avoid FrontPage like the plague, so I'm not sure.

But I'd bet that if you were to go into the code view you could just manually add it:

Code: Select all

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Test Font Text</font>

That will make Verdana show up, followed by Arial (if Verdana isn't available), followed by Helvetica (if Verdana and Arial are not available), etc.

If you use stylesheets instead, the format is the same -- comma separated font names in order of priority.

Okay, who knows a better way to do this in FrontPage?

[Garri]

Best way to embed fonts is using the sIFR methodology, which is becoming increasingly popular these days.

Some useful starting points:


usabletype.com/articles/2004/how-and-when-to-use-sifr/
mikeindustries.com/sifr/
fontsmack.com/