Septic Tanks and Deposits

[sue c]

Ju

Re your septic tank. Do you tell your guests that there is a septic tank and advise on how to use (or how not to use)? And if they blocked it, would you really use their deposit cheque? (Somehow talking about deposits and septic tanks conjures up unpleasant images!).

It's something I hadn't thought of but you're right it could be quite pricey (and inconvenient) to get sorted. I find many people have no idea what a septic tank is and so I don't mention it. Just keep the house filled with eco-friendly cleaning products and keep my fingers crossed. But maybe I should think again?

[A-two]

The one thing which could happen here is if the septic tank got blocked. The clearance fee is about £250 so it would be covered, and I think it does act as a deterent. Any more though and I think I would be put off.

Ju

Ju,
We take 10% deposit (minimum $500), but I wouldn't dream of holding the nearest visitors responsible for our septic systems. They have never given us a moment's trouble, even when a family threw a party for 150 of their closest friends without telling us (for which they lost their deposit, but for other reasons). We have also thrown parties at our own house for 100 people.

I'm sorry, but if I was a guest in your house and your system backed up, I would not agree to any deduction from the deposit. I would argue with you that the most likely cause was a long term build up over many years of non-biodegradeable products being flushed down the drains.

We have discreet notices in each bathroom asking guests not to flush cotton buds, feminine products etc., otherwise we don't find any need to mention it. It's framed in a postcard size picture frame and sits on top of the toilet and starts, "For your comfort and safety......"

Just my opinion.

All the best,

Joanna

[la vache!]

We had an incident with one of our septic tanks at Christmas when we had some English people staying for 2 weeks. The drains got blocked and sewage backed up into the downstairs bath and shower. I wouldn't of dreamed of charging them for it, I was just pleased they were so understanding about it all and didn't ask for a refund. As Joanna said, how do you prove it was their fault and not a gradual build-up of products? I wouldn't risk the bad feeling and publicity you would get. Incidentally the call out charge was 230€ for the deblockage, really not worth risking the bad feeling and publicity that would have been generated had we charged the guests.

[vrooje]

Can't the person un-blocking the system tell you if someone tried to flush something that's clearly un-flushable (like clothing or wood/metal objects)? If that's the case I would certainly charge, but not if it was just through regular use. I'm guessing that's what Ju meant.

[A-two]

Can't the person un-blocking the system tell you if someone tried to flush something that's clearly un-flushable (like clothing or wood/metal objects)? If that's the case I would certainly charge, but not if it was just through regular use. I'm guessing that's what Ju meant.

Hi Brooke,

I have to say that flushing clothing down the toilet is a new one on me (!), but let's say that it did occurr. Assuming that reasonable people can agree that is not normal behavior, then the Tenants would be in breach of contract with respect to keeping the plumbing fixtures and drains free and clear, in which case we would be inclined to charge them the cost of unblocking a drain, which had only been blocked as a direct result of misuse. This is not the same thing as pumping out the septic system.

More about septic systems......

Without wishing to get too graphic, it is my understanding that the flushing of cotton buds, feminine products and even tissues (rather than regular toilet paper) causes no problems with the drains at all, they disappear just like anything else, rather it causes a build up over time in the septic system (years and decades, not hours and days) because they do not degrade in the same way as .....well, you can imagine......

However, if hundreds of people were to use a system designed only for a normal household, all on the same day and a few socks got thrown into the mix, then the septic system might not be able to cope and could back up and overflow. As stated previously, we've pushed it to 150 people with no problems, but I do know one property manager in North Carolina who pumps out at every changeover for this reason - but hers are huge houses that accomodate 20-30 people and they specialize in hosting weddings for hundreds of guests, no expense spared. For us, it would be ridiculous to pump out at every changeover, hence if it did ever back up, there would be no way to prove it was not already substantially blocked by other people's socks before the tenants had arrived. These would have to be synthetic socks by the way.

So the answer to your question is no, because no single sock would have caused it.

When a septic system backs up, a large truck arrives with a big hose and hooks up to the outside tank, pumps it all out and takes it away. Inspecting what is being pumped out for socks, then trying to determine whose feet they fit is not an option, even for Sherlock Holmes.

Do we need to tell visitors as they step across the threshold how the septic system works? I would say no, it falls into the category of "too much information". All we need to tell them is not to flush synthetic, non-biodegradable products and not to host a sock flushing contest for 200 of their closest friends.

There are many more things in any house that are more likely to go wrong and more expensive to fix than this, so I don't think having a septic system is any reason to be concerned about a property being suitable as a vacation rental home, neither does it justify a higher than normal deposit.

What I do think is that people misunderstand septic systems generally, and talk about them in hushed tones as if they are rather fragile in some way. I don't find that to be true at all, and neither do our friends and neighbors, all of whom are in the same situation and have been for generations since the English first settled here in 1640.

There is no municipal sewerage available here for anyone, including 28 wineries that host weddings and functions for 500+ people, several motels, lots of restaurants and all the usual businesses that our community enjoys in 2005. I can assure you that throughout this area, you would never know the difference by flushing a toilet, or running a dishwasher. Our typical guest has no idea when they arrive and leave us none the wiser.

In 6 years, I have only ever seen one pump out truck in the area. It is a very rare event. There is no maintenance. There is no bill. There is no problem. Famous last words...

All the best,
Joanna

[tansy]

Happiness in France is your Fosse working and your woodshed full of firewood!

Here in France it is recommended to have your Fosse Septique / Fosse de l'eau emptied every 4 years and as Joanna says a big truck comes...the de l'eau system as you all knows works on the basis that the water is filtered out....I find it all quite fascinating - in one of our fields you can follow the course of the pipes by the height & strength of the grass....it goes for some distance as well!

[vrooje]

Joanna,

Thank you for that detailed information! I've always been on a sewer line (as is our rental) so it's never something I've thought about. But that's really interesting (if gross) to know!

[Ju]

I certainly wasn't refering to stardard usage of the fosse, more the sithuation of someone flushing something which blocks the system (nappies are a favourite).

I always emphasize the fact we have a septic tank to our guests. It has never seemed to cause any upset, and it is the only way to make sure they get the message across.

Ju

[A-two]

(nappies are a favourite).

Nappies would block any system, not just septics. My point was that mentioning we had a septic system seemed to be a cause of anxiety to guests unfamiliar with it and anxious to "do the right thing". This was counterproductive, so rather than go into long, complicated explanations that seemed (to us) to be unecessary, we stopped telling them. There have been no adverse consequences, but I appreciate your tip about nappies, (aka diapers) and adding it to my notice in the bathrooms about what not to flush.

Regards,
Joanna

[tansy]

Oh I mention fosse septique a lot....because if folk use Britsih products (and they all arrive to us by car - easy to pack) the bio degradable system stops....and the pong involved getting it going again is horrible...dead chicken does work...but going round everyones coops to see if a chicken has fallen off it's perch during the night is so time consuming!! (I wouldn't kill one to shove down my fosse that's for sure!!!)

[A-two]

[quote="tansy"]Oh I mention fosse septique a lot....because if folk use Britsih products (and they all arrive to us by car - easy to pack) the bio degradable system stops.... quote]

Now, I'm confused. What products are you talking about exactly Tansy? Are we still on nappies? It doesn't matter to me whether these are British, French, American or from Timbuktoo, they still don't degrade, with or without a dead chicken! If you mean cleaning products, I don't understand how these products would affect the septic system (although no chemical is good for ground water reservoirs).

Regards,
Joanna

[tansy]

Jaonna - toilet paper is included in the list - all French products are manufactured with the fosse in mind including toilet paper - never use it when you have a cold to wipe your nose...all the skin round your nose with peel!!

So if folk from across the channel come in their car and just put in washing powder etc to use over here the chemicals in the products are in danger of stopping the biodegradable system. British bleach is especially the bug bear.

But if your fosse is working no smell - if something goes down to stop the bacteria or if you forget to put the WC Net down on a weekly basis, you will start to smell it....and oh boy will you smell it as all fosses are close to the house here!!

WC Net is a product you buy in the supermarket - a sachet a week flushed down the loo keeps everything working beautifully.

Hope that clarifies - I could do a book on fosses!!



All the best

[Alan Knighting]

WC Net is a product you buy in the supermarket - a sachet a week flushed down the loo keeps everything working beautifully.

I use a similar product - Eparcyl.

Another little tip in keeping any smells away is to run water through any little used shower, bath, bidet or washbasin. The small reservoir of water in the "U" bend can evaporate allowing odours to permeate back into the house.

[tansy]

thanks Alan...you've reminded me to pop into Point Vert to get the big treatment for the 6 monthly!!

I do that as a make sure as I change my hair colour as the mood takes me and I'm sure the dye doesn't do the fosse much good so I do a 6 monthly booster treatment as well as a weekly scahet..se what I mean re a book!!!

sad isn't it I know so much about fosses but worse I find the subject fascinating

[Normandy Cow]

Tansy!!!
You and I are on the same wavelength - I too am fascinated by my septic tank!!!!!

Have you ever visited the Septic Tank website????
http://swopnet.com/geo_wastewater_2000/ ... Tanks.html
Contains such gems as "Get to Know Your Septic Tank", "Septic Tanks and Sodium - A Brief History", and my especial favourite: "Do-It-Yourself Septic Tank Repair Page".

Enjoy....!

Catherine (anorak-wearing saddo)