Are there enough hours in the day to deal with Vistaprint?

Using press and magazine advertising, brochures, mailings - old hat or still cost-effective?
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Jason W
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Post by Jason W »

Alan Knighting wrote:Jason,

I’ve ordered business cards and office stamps from Vistaprint knowing full well that I would have to pay for the postage and I’m perfectly happy with that.

I was already a recipient of their “ought for nought” offer so I didn’t take it any further. I am never persuaded by any “rewards” systems so I didn’t tick the box which appears to have so attracted you.

Alan
Alan, instead of being so condescending why don't you take the time to read the URLs I posted and educate yourself and you will see why myself and others were scammed. There are any number of variations of how you got signed up to VPRewards without agreeing to it but if you cannot be bothered to read the links, then its a pointless discussion.


Better still, why don't you Google 'vistaprint' and see for yourself the esteem this company isn't held in.
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Alan Knighting
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Post by Alan Knighting »

Jason,

I don’t need to look at any of those things, although I have done. I took advantage of the offer of free business cards and I paid the postage.

Am I really being condescending when I question the motives of those who get involved in “rewards” systems? In the same way, am I really being condescending when I question the motives of those who respond to what are obvious scam e-mails?

Alan
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Jason W
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Post by Jason W »

Alan,

clearly comprehension skills are not your forte otherwise you would have realised by now, if indeed you have read any of those links, that you do not subscribe to the rewards scheme knowingly. In some instances, customers have been automatically signed up to the rewards scheme without their knowledge and in others there is a tick box at the end of the ordering process which needed to be unchecked in order to proceed. This is in clear violation of the way online systems such as this are operated in the UK, where you have to physically 'check' the box in order to receive update or subscriptions.

In other words, you have to sign in to receive, not sign out as this scam has operated in the past.

Furthermore, when you informed me that 'people need to be aware of these things, if they exist' and I gave you plenty of opportunities to educate yourself (and others) and yet you went on to say 'I am never persuaded by any “rewards” systems so I didn’t tick the box which appears to have so attracted you' which in my book ranks as condescension.

Again, if you'd bothered to read any of the links provided or, more revealingly, bothered to do a simple Google search you will find page after page devoted to customers who have been victims of this scam. The sheer volume of people who have complained to the company and received refunds beggars belief, but again if you'd actually read any of it you'd have realised that by now. Otherwise, I'll refer you to my original point.

I can't make it any clearer for you so if you haven't understood it by now, then I suggest that you move along because it cannot be any simpler.
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Alan Knighting
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Post by Alan Knighting »

Jason,

Be as rude as you like. You got caught, I didn’t. You have a problem, I don’t.

Alan
A-two
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Post by A-two »

Jason,
Thanks for the heads up. I haven't used Vistaprint yet, but was intending to do so because of the good reports here. I'm just wondering whether you are referring to the .co.uk site or the .com site though. It wouldn't surprise me at all that the US site is doing this sort of thing, they are far more aggressive than EU equivalents.

Alan just doesn't get it I'm afraid. He doesn't appreciate that some of us live in a world where our personal details are traded without our knowledge or consent. He thinks you should be in control of the information you give out, he doesn't understand that in this day and age, it's almost impossible, unless you want to live an increasingly isolated lifestyle.

Try this one for size Alan. I booked a taxi to pick up my daughter from the airport and gave them credit card to charge it to. They didn't have anyone available, but didn't admit to it and so without informing us, they gave the booking to another unrelated company, including my credit card details (which is illegal). Company that had taken her to the airport also decided to turn up and pick her up, even though we hadn't ordered it from them. Long story short, two drivers showed up and my credit card was charged 3 times!! I was furious with all of them. They shrugged their shoulders and said it would all be straightened out in a few days, which it was. This is typical of the US, where the attitude is charge for it first, then get authorization later.

It does not surprise me at all that Vistaprint are charging people $14.95 even though they never ticked any box. They are relying on the fact that you can't remember what you ticked, and that a lot of people won't even notice the additional charge on the card anyway.

I'll avoid them, or if I use them, will watch them like a hawk. You can always dispute any charge on the credit card. The shocking thing is that this kind of thing is happening so often, it's not even a surprise to me any more.
Stu
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Post by Stu »

When I checked out those links (very useful - thanks) I got the impression it was mainly the US site that was 'scamming' their clients. I certainly haven't had anything go wrong in my 5 years of dealing with them through both the UK and French portals. I get very few e-mails from them, I'm always charged what they say they're charging me, and their work for me has always been first class.

So, while I sympathise with anyone who's been wrong footed by these people, I'd suggest that it may well be down to the individual franchisees in various countries that are at fault, rather than the company as a whole? Just a thought?
e-richard
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Post by e-richard »

Please don't blame (or flame) me if I'm wrong, but I think that the scam referred to in those links and elsewhere happened a couple of years ago, and VistaPrint have cleaned up their act since then.

I have "bought" many free items from them (.co.uk) over the last year, paid my inflated postage, and been very happy with the products, the service and not seen any mention of reward scheme on any credit card statement.
** Richard
PIMS: Holiday Rental Management system
They say we learn from our mistakes. That makes me a genius !
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Windy
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Post by Windy »

I would second the fact that VP seem OK in the UK - unless things have changed in the last few months.

Once you get your head around the FREE business cards, postage 7.50 thing it's pretty good value for money. I just ignore the emails and have a rule that sends them to a junk folder.

Best wishes

John
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Mountain Goat
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Post by Mountain Goat »

I get very few e-mails from them

It's a dull day when a V'print special-offer-email doesn't arrive, and an unusual day when I don't make an attempt at a 'free' order, and an 'almost unique'* day when it goes through.

MG
*stoppit Goat
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vrooje
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Post by vrooje »

I've ordered from Vistaprint (US) several times and never had a problem. The very first time it was free business cards, and although they were passable, the next round was a set of full-gloss, double-sided, custom-logo cards. Of course I paid more for them, but I like them much better. I've also ordered postcards from them (again, not the free kind) and they were also very nice. I do check my credit card statements regularly, and I've never been signed up for any kind of monthly charge.

However, that's not for lack of trying on their part. They make you go through several pages during the order process where you have the option of adding lots of things to your order at reduced rates (e.g., "extra 500 business cards for $5!", that sort of thing). Then, when it's all over, there's a pop-up inviting you to do something or other in order to qualify for more discount, or money off a future order. It's all sleazy sales tactics, including sales from other websites. It may go a little beyond the reasonable realm of "caveat emptor", but it can be avoided. At least that's true now -- I don't know about in the past.
Brooke
Stu
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Post by Stu »

MG, I've just had a look in the folder where I keep all the advertising bumf pertinent to the business. The last e-mail I had from them was on the 11/01/08 to tell me that my latest order had been despatched. Before that, the last 'soliciting' e-mail was on the 12/10/07 telling me that rather than order through their UK portal, it would be better for me (and cheaper too) if I used the French one. I don't have any 'bumf'' saved from them other than that. But, I don't remember getting many, if any.

I've also just been through the ordering process from start to finish in less than 2 minutes and the costs of 250 basic cards works out at €7.31 delivered, a cost of around three cents per card. Can't make 'em myself for that.

:wink:
Hells Bells
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Post by Hells Bells »

I haven't had anything from them either.
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vrooje
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Post by vrooje »

On the other hand, I've had three e-mails from them in the past three days, entitled:

"Twelve FREE Offers Exclusively For You"
"Our Annual Clearance Back By Popular Demand"
"Hurry, VistaPrint's First Annual Mega Sale Ends Soon"

I'd quote more, but I emptied my Hotmail inbox three days ago (and there were many, many more from Vistaprint prior to that).

Just makes me glad I have a throwaway e-mail for purchases and accounts like this.
Brooke
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Alan Knighting
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Post by Alan Knighting »

A2,
Alan just doesn't get it I'm afraid.
You are quite right, he doesn’t. He doesn’t even want the “it” you appear to have. He lives very openly in the big wide world. He uses his real name here. He attaches his name, address and telephone number to all of his e-mails. He is not nor ever has been ex-directory for the telephone book. What he does do is he uses his personal financial details with discretion.

Like Stu and Richard and John and Brooke I have used Vistaprint without experiencing any problems.

Alan
e-richard
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Post by e-richard »

I've been doing some further research on this topic, and firstly, I'd like to say "I was wrong" (dammit - happens occasionally) and the Rewards syndrome has been catching people out as recently as Feb 2008.

But on digging further, here is what I believe is happening:

When ordering your "free" business cards, you spend a chunk of time designing your card, reviewing it, saving it, and revising it. The interface for doing this is quite good by the way.

Then when you are satisfied and want to "order", you go through quite a tortuous process when you are asked to confirm your order sign for the design and enter you credit card details for postage - fine so far.

But to complete the order they take you through a further 6 or 7 pages during which time you are offered dozens of add-ons like an extra 250/500 cards, or fridge magnet, or card holder or notelets or stick-it notes and so on - all beautifully illustrated with your designs already present. Very tempting and quite annoying.

THEN...... towards the end of all this, when you're quite tetchy and fed-up with all the extraneous marketing bumph, you are also offered a £10 cash back on a future order. My memory goes a bit hazy here, but from what I've read, this is probably one of those options you need to explicitly opt out of. Its also not very obvious that in accepting this cash back offer, you are subscribing to their rewards program, which further implies a monthly charge (my small print for emphasis !!!), although obvious enough that many of us have not succumbed.

I'm not taking sides on this issue and suggesting that anyone who falls for the "scam" deserves it. I'm simply trying to clarify that its nothing to do with stealing your credit card details. You took your free cards, you got caught up in some questionably over-aggressive marketing and on reflection, I understand the annoyance.

To those who have yet to use Vista Print. You have now been warned, but you also have a number of recommendations.

edit: Just found this link on VistaPrint website. Seems to explain what I have been rambling on about.
** Richard
PIMS: Holiday Rental Management system
They say we learn from our mistakes. That makes me a genius !
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