swimming pool heaters?

[memes]

Has anyone here tried anything like these?
Swimming pool solar heater panel. FREE HEAT! new. on eBay, also Swimming Pools, Swimming Pools Hot Tubs, Garden Plants, Home Garden (end time 20-Feb-08 11:50:08 GMT)

and does anyone know if these are available in Italy rather than having to freight them from the UK? We're in southern Marche.

I'm not looking to get our pool up to tropical temps, just raise it by a few degrees to remove the 'brrr' factor. Its a 10x5m pool half of it only waist height. Thinking of trying two out - got to be worth it for £250 if it makes a real difference.

Any words of wisdom gratefully received.

M

edited to add link properly http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Swimming-pool-sol ... dZViewItem

[Richard D]

Hi memes,

We have the same American "Sunheater" system intalled for our 10x5 pool in France. The box shown on your ebay link is for above ground pools - just a smaller version that what we installed 2 yrs ago. The panels for in-ground pools are much larger !

Theres a few things to bear in mind:

You really need a decent sized South Facing roof near the pool to mount the things on (I actually built one at the correct angle for where we are and the new roof doubles up as covered parking for our guests !

Also to get a reasonable heating effect you need at least 50% of the square area of your pool in panels - ie. for a 10m x 5m pool you need min 25m2 of panels. I actually purchased 4 of the larger sunheater boxes (the bigger panels for ingound pools). I got them off a guy in Belgium who can ship all over Europe, but this was a couple of years ago now, but I can dig out his details if you're interested. I paid about 280€/box and brought four boxes to get 36m2 of panels, so added to all the other bits and pieces you need to buy to plumb the panels in the total cost was about 1500€.

Also if you get prolonged periods of little or no sunshine the panels stop heating and can actually start cooling the pool down - you need to set up the system so you can bypass the panels in cool weather (automatic control systems exist, but are expensive).

But saying all that, I'm pretty pleased with our system. Its very eco-friendly and costs almost nothing to run (we just run the pump all day now instead of all night). Most of the time our pool is a good 5 degrees warmer than my sisters' (she has an almost identical but unheated pool nearby).

Hope this is of help !

[memes]

Thanks Richard - this is for a below ground pool so looks like we will have to have a much bigger set up than my planned spend of £250!
Thats very useful to know.

M

[Alan Knighting]

Richard,

Also to get a reasonable heating effect you need at least 50% of the square area of your pool in panels - ie. for a 10m x 5m pool you need min 25m2 of panels.

You are so right. In warmer climates one needs the solar panel area to be between 50% and 75% of the area of the pool. In cooler climates the area of the panels needs to be between 100% and 150% of the area of the pool.

The other big thing to consider is heat loss. It’s all very well heating a pool but if all of the heat is rapidly lost it’s a bit like “the donkey chasing the carrot�. An in-ground pool can be easily and cheaply insulated at the time of installation (but not as a retro-fit), the regular use of a summer cover is a very effective method of retaining heat overnight but how many owners consider the effects of wind?

Wind can be a major contributor to heat loss and consideration should be given to installing some sort of wind break around a pool area. Shrub gardens, walls, fences and trellising are all effective wind breaks and when sympathetically applied can be an enhancement to the pool area.

Alan

[tree-peony]

I've just been looking at these. our pool is L-shaped so traditional covers are a bit of a problem. Plus space to put the windy up thingy is also a problem.

http://www.worldofpools.com/product_detail.asp?catid=39

thought, comments, observations, cash welcome

[e-richard]

I have the same problems as TP, so looked carefully at those gizmos. They certainly look simple and different. No idea how effective though, but would love to hear any recommendations.

But here's a thought:

Large family, with kids arrive on holiday.
See these pretty round things floating in the pool.

"lets see if we can walk across the pool on these stepping stones"
"lets play target practice and see who can jump off the side and land on the middle one"

Oh well, the joys and perils of holiday home ownership

[tree-peony]

yes that's my concern as well, BUT we don't have many booking with kids I think we're going to give them a go.

[Ben McNevis]

Not that I have any experience of these things but I've seen advertised a liquid pool cover which might help if the pool is an irregular shape. If you google for "tropical fish" and "pool" you find plenty of people who sell it. The claims are impressive but I've no idea what the reality is like. I think it's a fascinating idea though.

[tree-peony]

blimey, well it certainly SOUNDS good!

[memes]

We have used 'liquid pool pills' - these add a very thin (invisible) layer of oil to the top of the pool and it definately makes a little bit of difference to the temp. We had to buy them from the US - never seen em in europe.
Have realised that the solar heaters I mentioned in my first post here are not nearly enough, thanks for the advice - getting heating for £250 was a smidge optimistic! Think we need to spend more like a couple of thousand euro to do it properly..
Sigh.

M

[fincafern]

We tried the liquid fish for a while and you can guess what happened with 5 children in for the first week the fish were put in, despite the fact we explained to the parents what they were for.
I looked at the new floating solar pads and guess the same thing would happen. It's OK if its your own children using the pool but I can't see it working with guest children and we do have a lot of them with 2 villas.
I think we are going to go for a cover only first and then probably the heat exchanger. At least the cover will help retain the heat overnight and keep leaves and dust out in winter. I have been told it might warm the pool up a bit more for the shoulder seasons - maybe a month more each end.
I keep trying to weigh up the costs of installation v additional bookings and can't decide whether its worth it. We do have a hot tub too for the chilly times. I still getting the odd enquiry asking if the pool is heated in winter but I wonder if enough to justify thee added cost.
Personally, I wouldn't jump into a heated pool in January but maybe some guests are different
Does anyone have any experience on this ?

[la vache!]

Children will jump into a heated pool (or unheated) no matter what the ambient temperature. I get bookings in April/May & October (when it can still be quite chilly here) because the pool is heated during the shoulder season. I don't often see many adults in there, but it is an added attraction for families, it really depends on your market.

[Richard D]

At least the cover will help retain the heat overnight and keep leaves and dust out in winter.

One thing to bear in mind is that most "bubblewrap" solar covers are not generally designed for Winter use. You need to buy a seperate winter cover for that (these are like a giant tarpaulin and even more expensive than the thermal covers). The thermal covers tend to disintegrate over time anyway (the UV exposure makes the plastic go brittle). You'll be lucky if you can get 5 years of use out of a thermal cover even if you only use it to cover the pool at night during the open season, but they do make about a 2 or 3 degree differance to the start temp of the pool in the morning if they're used.

Our pool is happily filling up with leaves and the thermal cover is safely rolled up and covered with a tarp to keep the sunlight off it over Winter !

[Alan Knighting]

Richard,

In my opinion, when it comes to having a heated pool there are only two sensible alternatives. They are solar panels or heat exchangers. There is no such thing as a “liquid fish” or an “oily surface” which even vaguely approaches having a heat source which is at least 50% of the surface area of the pool and that as a minimum is what is required.

My summer cover is not a “bubble wrap thermal solar cover”. It’s more like one of these tarpaulin things but it is still safely rolled up and covered with a tarp to keep the sunlight off it because it is totally ineffective for winter use.

Alan