Susan,
I practically never retain any of the security deposit: if the oven had not been new I would have treated it as more or less depreciation, depending on the age. However, I can't find any argument not to keep back the sec dep under these circumstances - and no, I don't ever want to see them again. My mails on the subject were with the lawyer in the group, who knew that their position was indefensible and whose sole argument was a denial of responsability. Since the door wasn't broken before they arrived and was broken when they left this wasn't a strong argument.
We have a lot or returning visitors: I wouldn't want anyone back if it had been necessary to retain a part of the sec dep, since I rarely need to do this. I don't deduct for wear & tear (broken china, glasses, torn sheets - unless brand new, of course - etc). I don't have an inventory and have never been aware of anything being stolen......I don't count the cutlery, the books, the cd's....... or anything else!
If a property is well decorated and clean, with generous provision of everything the visitors wil need, it will be treated with respect. I have no doubt the broken oven door was an accident - probably a child stood on it - but this is their responsability.
worse than I thought!
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Alan Knighting
- Posts: 4120
- Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 7:26 am
- Location: Monflanquin, Lot-et-Garonne, France
To quote myself:-
Why am I so lucky? To be honest I don't think it is luck. To an extent Alexia has summed it up in a nutshell.
Reading other peoples' experiences I now have not just my fingers but all appendages very firmly crossed.
Alan
They duly arrived and are a charming young couple. Both trainee solicitors from London, travelling through France to Biarritz for his father 50th birthday on Sunday. They started out camping and hated it (what a surprise) so turned to self catering. They love it and asked for my brochure for future reference. Payment? Cash up front in Euros.Did they find themselves in one of your "coal holes"? Were they thrown out of one of Alexia's "movie sets"? Only time will tell! I will come back on this one.
Why am I so lucky? To be honest I don't think it is luck. To an extent Alexia has summed it up in a nutshell.
I don't demand a security deposit and I have never needed one. The only damage, as opposed to trivial breakages, I have suffered was a broken glass in the front of a wood-burning stove and the Americans who did it insisted on giving me 100€ for the repair which more than covered the cost.If a property is well decorated and clean, with generous provision of everything the visitors will need, it will be treated with respect.
Reading other peoples' experiences I now have not just my fingers but all appendages very firmly crossed.
Alan
Alexia - couldn't agree more..since posting my "frustration" I have time time to reflect...I'm reading with you that the oven door was possibly broken by a child standing on it...they should take the responsibility...
I'm angry because I've had chewing gum stuck on a shower wall and the loo floor pee'd all over plus, plus, plus, (I won't bore you with details) possibly by the children - they should accept responsibility....
You know I think it could all be alcohol related...there was so much red wine spilt it probably took 3 bottles to make the same effect as 4 if you see what I mean...
I love a drink with the rest of them...but...[/i]
I'm angry because I've had chewing gum stuck on a shower wall and the loo floor pee'd all over plus, plus, plus, (I won't bore you with details) possibly by the children - they should accept responsibility....
You know I think it could all be alcohol related...there was so much red wine spilt it probably took 3 bottles to make the same effect as 4 if you see what I mean...
I love a drink with the rest of them...but...[/i]
If you don't bank a security deposit, you might as well not ask for one, as Tansy has found out, because they can just cancel the cheque.
And if you don't do a thorough inspection with the departing renters (which I find a most inelegant way to end a holiday), you leave yourself open to problems too.
What about this situation my friend had: some renters reported to her that a nice lamp had been broken at the 'neck' such that it was possible to balance the top of the lamp back on - it didn't look broken, but when you touched it, it fell apart. They said they found it like this. In this situation, who do you blame - the previous renters, the current renters, or your cleaner?
In this instance, the previous renters owned up under questioning, they said they had forgotten to declare the breakage and paid for a replacement. But they could just as easily have denied it.
For the same house, a renter coming this summer is not happy because on arrival she feels she will have to do a thorough check of the house to make sure there are no breakages - like checking over a rental car when you get the keys. She doesn't want to begin a holiday like that. And if she does find something, how does she prove it wasn't she who broke it?
I don't really have a point here, but security deposits are a grey area aren't they?
And if you don't do a thorough inspection with the departing renters (which I find a most inelegant way to end a holiday), you leave yourself open to problems too.
What about this situation my friend had: some renters reported to her that a nice lamp had been broken at the 'neck' such that it was possible to balance the top of the lamp back on - it didn't look broken, but when you touched it, it fell apart. They said they found it like this. In this situation, who do you blame - the previous renters, the current renters, or your cleaner?
In this instance, the previous renters owned up under questioning, they said they had forgotten to declare the breakage and paid for a replacement. But they could just as easily have denied it.
For the same house, a renter coming this summer is not happy because on arrival she feels she will have to do a thorough check of the house to make sure there are no breakages - like checking over a rental car when you get the keys. She doesn't want to begin a holiday like that. And if she does find something, how does she prove it wasn't she who broke it?
I don't really have a point here, but security deposits are a grey area aren't they?
Paolo
Lay My Hat
Lay My Hat
Paolo,
yes they are a very grey area- by taking a cheque but not cashing it (which most people never realise I have not done anyway) I have always thought it sent a message to people that the possibility was there to claim any damages, so therefore they would be more careful. So effectively I have just trusted people, like Alan has, and hope they will be honest enough to report any breakages, which they have always done. Is £200 really going to be enough to cover a major breakage anyway? I have also found that living on site, you get to know guests during the course of their stay, help them out if they have any difficulties and maybe this makes has a positive effect by making it more difficult for them to be dishonest as they know you personally??
yes they are a very grey area- by taking a cheque but not cashing it (which most people never realise I have not done anyway) I have always thought it sent a message to people that the possibility was there to claim any damages, so therefore they would be more careful. So effectively I have just trusted people, like Alan has, and hope they will be honest enough to report any breakages, which they have always done. Is £200 really going to be enough to cover a major breakage anyway? I have also found that living on site, you get to know guests during the course of their stay, help them out if they have any difficulties and maybe this makes has a positive effect by making it more difficult for them to be dishonest as they know you personally??
Paolo,
In the the lamp situation I would have just swallowed the cost if there had been any doubt.
I agree about the inelegant way to end a holiday: it is inelegant for each side and I don't do it unless the visitor insists .... and then I know that there is a problem hidden somewhere!
I guess your friends (whose visitors worry about inspecting the house on arrival) have an inventory (which I agree is an excellent idea - I just find that this, too, is inelegant).
In the the lamp situation I would have just swallowed the cost if there had been any doubt.
I agree about the inelegant way to end a holiday: it is inelegant for each side and I don't do it unless the visitor insists .... and then I know that there is a problem hidden somewhere!
I guess your friends (whose visitors worry about inspecting the house on arrival) have an inventory (which I agree is an excellent idea - I just find that this, too, is inelegant).
Best,
Alexia.
Alexia.
I've not gone down the inventory route either- I feel uncomfy with it! After all, I know what's there ! If I had to have a Manager then I would have an inventory 
I don't do checks when the guests are there either,much too uncomfy! 
www.thepetitmanoir.com
I don't do checks when the guests are there either,much too uncomfy! www.thepetitmanoir.com
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Normandy Cow
- Posts: 2687
- Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2004 7:14 am
- Location: Normandy
- Contact:
I think it depends upon the attitude of the renters whether or not I would charge for breakages such as the lamp mentioned above.
If they had left the house in good condition in every other way, but had accidentally broken the lamp, then I would put this down to wear and tear - after all, it could happen to anybody, even us, and who is to know how delicate the lamp was - maybe someone else had knocked it over previously and weakened it, and then the next people only knocked it gently and it broke completely?
However, If they had generally left the house in an untidy/dirty state, or had a number of other minor breakages, then yes I would charge for the lamp.
I think every situation is different and as such needs a different solution...
But I ALWAYS cash the deposit cheque before the start of the holiday, so at least I have the comfort of knowing that it is in my bank account before any potential unpleasantness. And I do believe that just by knowing that I have that deposit, the guests do make sure that they are more careful.
If they had left the house in good condition in every other way, but had accidentally broken the lamp, then I would put this down to wear and tear - after all, it could happen to anybody, even us, and who is to know how delicate the lamp was - maybe someone else had knocked it over previously and weakened it, and then the next people only knocked it gently and it broke completely?
However, If they had generally left the house in an untidy/dirty state, or had a number of other minor breakages, then yes I would charge for the lamp.
I think every situation is different and as such needs a different solution...
But I ALWAYS cash the deposit cheque before the start of the holiday, so at least I have the comfort of knowing that it is in my bank account before any potential unpleasantness. And I do believe that just by knowing that I have that deposit, the guests do make sure that they are more careful.
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Linda Freese
- Posts: 175
- Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2004 9:00 am
- Location: Costa del Sol
Last year we had two couples staying at one of our apartments however as they were from Eastern Europe (we normally deal with UK guests), they gave me a security deposit in Euros on arrival.
On the day of their departure, I went to check the apartment, in order to give them the refund.They had moved a wooden coffee table to one side and put a tablecloth over it and a vase. I didn´t think anything of it and as everything appeared in order, I refunded them their deposit.
When I went in to clean the apartment the following day, they had left a note with 20 euros, apologising for having burnt a great big hole in our table by setting up a portable BBQ on it!!! They had covered this with the table cloth!
Of course we contacted them but they insisted that the table was not worth more than 20 euros!! Talk about adding insult to injury! If I take a cash deposit now, I do not refund it on departure but only after I´ve had a good chance to look around!
On the day of their departure, I went to check the apartment, in order to give them the refund.They had moved a wooden coffee table to one side and put a tablecloth over it and a vase. I didn´t think anything of it and as everything appeared in order, I refunded them their deposit.
When I went in to clean the apartment the following day, they had left a note with 20 euros, apologising for having burnt a great big hole in our table by setting up a portable BBQ on it!!! They had covered this with the table cloth!
Of course we contacted them but they insisted that the table was not worth more than 20 euros!! Talk about adding insult to injury! If I take a cash deposit now, I do not refund it on departure but only after I´ve had a good chance to look around!
I think I would have a mild problem with that as a renter, because I will not be around when the decision is made. It's like returning a rental car and being told they will check it over the next day to see if there are any problems.If I take a cash deposit now, I do not refund it on departure but only after I´ve had a good chance to look around!
I suppose it all comes down to trust, both ways. If I was renting from Linda, I wouldn't mind leaving without my deposit. But there are all shades of rental owners out there, from fair to Fagin.
Paolo
Lay My Hat
Lay My Hat
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Linda Freese
- Posts: 175
- Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2004 9:00 am
- Location: Costa del Sol
As someone who has thought the issue of security deposits is a grey area from day zero, I have followed this discussion with great interest. Like most of what we do, there is a variety of practices out there - we do different things with regards to collecting/refunding SDs. I have had a few things resolved (well sort of), but for me I think CatherineS has summed it up well:
think every situation is different and as such needs a different solution...
You aren't an MP are you Mr BC ?? 
Well spoken- yes, Ok , possibly toooo thoughtful for the aforementioned!
www.thepetitmanoir.com
Well spoken- yes, Ok , possibly toooo thoughtful for the aforementioned! www.thepetitmanoir.com
I honestly don't know now...it's a numbers game at the end of the day...in 4 years I've tried to keep a deposit twice...so a very loose calculation it is 0.03% that is a bad egg...
Is there an insurance policy perhaps - and as an owner we have some commission as well? Our boat holiday we had an option 72 Euro insurance or deposit cash of 800 Euros....just a thought - is it feasible....it could cover cancellations, illnesses etc etc for the person coming.
Is there an insurance policy perhaps - and as an owner we have some commission as well? Our boat holiday we had an option 72 Euro insurance or deposit cash of 800 Euros....just a thought - is it feasible....it could cover cancellations, illnesses etc etc for the person coming.
with today's politicians...not thinking of anyone in particular of course ....I am not sure if that is a compliment or not. No, nothing as exciting as a MP - I am an archaeologist, now an indepedant one as I have just recently given up as a lecturer at the University of Manchester to run my gite and B&B and write at the same time (when I find the time).
I did not mean to make my last post look so final - but I pressed the wrong button after setting the quote, and I thought that a good enough sign to stop waffling. I just think the issue of SD is so grey its probably almost black (for us). All to often we see horror stories about people who go on holidays to hell holes...what about these TV people doing a programme from our point of view?
I did not mean to make my last post look so final - but I pressed the wrong button after setting the quote, and I thought that a good enough sign to stop waffling. I just think the issue of SD is so grey its probably almost black (for us). All to often we see horror stories about people who go on holidays to hell holes...what about these TV people doing a programme from our point of view?