WARNING: holiday.com
I too have had exactly the same response from Ross...
Not too impressed with the reply - so will be emailing again...but maybe he is under a lot of pressure...maybe they are composing a circular for us all...we have to wait - but I am a bit hot under the collar - we could be loosing money - I've still teh whole of September to sell and one week in July...not one enquiry for ages & ages...not too good reallyTansy,
Many thanks for your email. I have already posted on the forum. The reply is on page one. Please do contact them and ask to be removed from their site.
Best wishes,
Ross McGowan
Sales Manager
Holiday-Rentals.com
ross@holiday-rentals.com
Tel +44 (0)20 8740 3865
Fax +44 (0)20 8740 3863
Just to keep you all posted, I recieved a reply from Ross at H-R within 4 minutes of him recieving it! He confirmed that he (and his bosses) are working on it. And yes, they are monitoring our "complaints" on this forum.
To quote him, "he stated that his silence should not be percieved as H-R ignoring the situation. They just don't have any new information at this time".
They are recieving numerous emails on this subject, so we are not alone on this one.
To quote him, "he stated that his silence should not be percieved as H-R ignoring the situation. They just don't have any new information at this time".
They are recieving numerous emails on this subject, so we are not alone on this one.
Malta – always in the sunshine!
Well thank you John . . . that's a bit more encouraging isn't it and yes, it does help to know we're not alone.
However, our responses from H-R weren't so good were they Tansy . . . have you ever noticed that sometimes it seems to take a chap to intervene before things get taken seriously? I do hope this isn't one of those occasions. Anyway, I'm in the same boat as you . . nasty holes in my bookings, even during Peak when I wouldn't expect to have them . . . despite Ross pointing out that one of our properties is at the high end of the market . . . it always has been and I haven't had this problem with Peak before. I'm perfectly well aware that there are many other factors which may have caused this . . . but it really does strike me as odd. Maybe H-R quietly think it odd too . . . and maybe that's why they are being so guarded in their responses for the time being.
Oh well . . . I shall just have to get busy trying to sell those weeks some other way I guess . . .
Patia
However, our responses from H-R weren't so good were they Tansy . . . have you ever noticed that sometimes it seems to take a chap to intervene before things get taken seriously? I do hope this isn't one of those occasions. Anyway, I'm in the same boat as you . . nasty holes in my bookings, even during Peak when I wouldn't expect to have them . . . despite Ross pointing out that one of our properties is at the high end of the market . . . it always has been and I haven't had this problem with Peak before. I'm perfectly well aware that there are many other factors which may have caused this . . . but it really does strike me as odd. Maybe H-R quietly think it odd too . . . and maybe that's why they are being so guarded in their responses for the time being.
Oh well . . . I shall just have to get busy trying to sell those weeks some other way I guess . . .
Patia
Ross rang me he was so upset we all seem to be getting worried about losing money!
Apparently this holiday.com has been a thorn in their sides for quite some time - they have a legal team working on it...Marcella is coming back from holiday tomorrow so things could well be hotting up.
The problem is they are getting no reponses from holiday.com
I posted a couple of times - I don't understand what they are up to because they are not asking for money...I did get the enquiry I sent myself...but didn't verify it...(may do that to see what happens)....but holiday-rentals dont know what they are up to either...more than likely they are building a rival site - them seem to have taken '000's of houses of h-r.com - it's just weird that enquiries have dropped at the same time.
I don't know in short what is going on - holiday.com are not answering me either - I am going to use another email address and see if I can get some info from them about advertising with them...so we will see...
But I still wonder if we shouldn't all use the same format email to bombard them about our property being on their site - would it help with legal battle if everyone said the same at the same time..legal beagles what do you think?...or are you too fluffy now Alan
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Apparently this holiday.com has been a thorn in their sides for quite some time - they have a legal team working on it...Marcella is coming back from holiday tomorrow so things could well be hotting up.
The problem is they are getting no reponses from holiday.com
I posted a couple of times - I don't understand what they are up to because they are not asking for money...I did get the enquiry I sent myself...but didn't verify it...(may do that to see what happens)....but holiday-rentals dont know what they are up to either...more than likely they are building a rival site - them seem to have taken '000's of houses of h-r.com - it's just weird that enquiries have dropped at the same time.
I don't know in short what is going on - holiday.com are not answering me either - I am going to use another email address and see if I can get some info from them about advertising with them...so we will see...
But I still wonder if we shouldn't all use the same format email to bombard them about our property being on their site - would it help with legal battle if everyone said the same at the same time..legal beagles what do you think?...or are you too fluffy now Alan
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Alan Knighting
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Tansy,
No, I am not too fluffy at all but I love being regarded as being fluffy.
From a legal point of view the Internet is a very difficult place to be. There is not one common copyright law which applies equally to every country in the world. Even the USA might think it governs the world but, in reality, it doesn't.
With this present problem, I would be inclined to give Ross some more time to get this problem resolved. Holiday Rentals have their future at stake here. If they do nothing about it we can all "walk out" leaving them with no business.
How do I feel about this personally? I am steaming mad! I would like to find a way of bombarding the holiday.com website with millions of spam e-mails a day in the same way as the vendors of herbal viagra and body enhancement products do with the rest of us. Maybe that would bring them to a grinding halt but I don't know how.
Regards
Alan
No, I am not too fluffy at all but I love being regarded as being fluffy.
From a legal point of view the Internet is a very difficult place to be. There is not one common copyright law which applies equally to every country in the world. Even the USA might think it governs the world but, in reality, it doesn't.
With this present problem, I would be inclined to give Ross some more time to get this problem resolved. Holiday Rentals have their future at stake here. If they do nothing about it we can all "walk out" leaving them with no business.
How do I feel about this personally? I am steaming mad! I would like to find a way of bombarding the holiday.com website with millions of spam e-mails a day in the same way as the vendors of herbal viagra and body enhancement products do with the rest of us. Maybe that would bring them to a grinding halt but I don't know how.
Regards
Alan
Well, I doubt any drop in bookings is due to holiday.com. I just don't think they are on the radar enough to cause any biz decline.
What gets me is that holiday.com's business practices are so awful. And who does it hurt the most? The potential guest, trying to coordinate their dream vacation, who has to wait for responses while holiday.com runs around trying to get money for something they admittedly stole. In fact, that might make a nice letter: Dear Holiday.com - Let me get this straight: you admittedly stole my listing and now you want me to pay you to respond to the guest who is waiting for a reply about my property's availability? And if I don't pay you, that guest won't bother contacting me again from the site where I am legally listed. Isn't this blackmail? Fondly, debk
Unfortunately (can't believe I said that), they haven't lifted my properties. I am officiallly still a Washington State resident and could spearhead an effort to go after them locally... I've got a handful of heavy-duty attorney friends in Seattle... but only after seeing what H-R does, of course. I still think backing up H-R is our best best for now.
Ross, please let us know how we can help. And thanks for keeping us posted!
One other idea: That fee-based VR Association -- can't remember the name, I keep deleting their email newsletters -- is based in Seattle. If someone belongs, maybe they could get them to apply some local pressure? Something for your annual fees perhaps?
What gets me is that holiday.com's business practices are so awful. And who does it hurt the most? The potential guest, trying to coordinate their dream vacation, who has to wait for responses while holiday.com runs around trying to get money for something they admittedly stole. In fact, that might make a nice letter: Dear Holiday.com - Let me get this straight: you admittedly stole my listing and now you want me to pay you to respond to the guest who is waiting for a reply about my property's availability? And if I don't pay you, that guest won't bother contacting me again from the site where I am legally listed. Isn't this blackmail? Fondly, debk
Unfortunately (can't believe I said that), they haven't lifted my properties. I am officiallly still a Washington State resident and could spearhead an effort to go after them locally... I've got a handful of heavy-duty attorney friends in Seattle... but only after seeing what H-R does, of course. I still think backing up H-R is our best best for now.
Ross, please let us know how we can help. And thanks for keeping us posted!
One other idea: That fee-based VR Association -- can't remember the name, I keep deleting their email newsletters -- is based in Seattle. If someone belongs, maybe they could get them to apply some local pressure? Something for your annual fees perhaps?
Well I've heard from holiday.com...this is what they said...
So basically they are cloning holiday-rentals.com - they use all their names and block any enquiry via holiday.com unless we pay up...the real holiday-rentals.com have been worried about this for some months...so I hope the situation can be resolved soon as someone pointed out if a prospective client sees your property and tries to book - doesn't hear from you...that's that.Tansy Forster,
Holiday.com is using advertisements of the type we planed to attract, so the search technique can be verified. Since you found ads for your business, this must have worked. We are in the process of finding the owners of the data we have been using.
There are two ways to sign up for advertisement on Holiday.com:Â
   1. Free activation (pay per response)
   2. Pay for one or two years subscription
Since it does not cost anything to sign up using free activation, Â ads used have a free activation status.
As  we find the owner of  the data of a particular ad, we inform them and give them the opportunity to pay for responses or sign up for one or two years subscription. If they rather have us deactivate their ad we oblige immediately.
In order to provide accurate and up to date information regarding your properties, please review the information as shown on the websites:
http://rentals.holiday.com/utah-beach-s ... -normandy/
http://rentals.holiday.com/st-germain-sur-ay-normandy/
We have activated your advertisements using the free activation option. This option offers you to view responses at a cost of $30 US dollars per each response. To view other subscription offers click on this link http://rentals.holiday.com/index.php/costs .
To edit your advertisements use the Advertiser Sign In link http://rentals.holiday.com/index.php/login. You have not been assigned a password so click on the link labeled "I forgot my password". When asked for an email address use xxxx.xxxx.france@wanadoo.fr
Sincerely,
Peter
Custom services manager Holiday.com
I think this is an important point. What holiday.com are doing is wrong and illegal, but it needn't damage your business.debk wrote:Well, I doubt any drop in bookings is due to holiday.com. I just don't think they are on the radar enough to cause any biz decline.
And holiday-rentals will be even more anxious than any of us to put a stop to this. But it is difficult to establish who is doing what on the internet. There is a registration address in Japan for the website, and that's it. I would be very surprised if even that information is correct.
Holiday-rentals have been targeted because they are very successful at what they do. They are entirely blameless.
If you are on holiday.com, I would suggest emailing them with a request that they remove your ad, using the email address quoted earlier in this thread. But set up a free web-based email account like hotmail or yahoo. When you fill in the registration fields for these accounts, you don't have to fill any of them truthfully - I just type gibberish. This would mean you are not giving holiday.com your real email address, which is probably what they want.
Will this work? I doubt it. I also don't think there is any point in us all sending them an email of complaint - somehow I doubt this will convert them into law-abiding citizens.
Eventually the bad apples will be removed (and they will be replaced by others).
Paolo
Lay My Hat
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Normandy Cow
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The more I read about this the more I realise that this is outrageous!
I like their comment "Since you found ads for your business, this must have worked"!!! Bl**dy cheek!!!
I am so relieved to find that they haven't got mine yet, but that's probably because I only recently joined holiday-rentals.
I'm interested to know how they are "finding the owners of the data we have been using"!
Have you asked for your ad to be deactivated? If so, I would be interested to hear whether they do in fact deactivate their your ad.
I think that we should suggest to Ross that holiday-rentals sends an email to all their existing advertisers, advising them of this scam, and tells them that if they do find that their ad has been cloned, they should request that it is immediately deactivated...
(EDIT - I was originally writing this in response to Tansy's post, but must have been doing so at the same time as Paolo, who got in first! Having read his response, I realise that he is probably right - there's probably not much point in everyone requesting that their site is deactivated because they probably won't do it anyway)
I like their comment "Since you found ads for your business, this must have worked"!!! Bl**dy cheek!!!
I am so relieved to find that they haven't got mine yet, but that's probably because I only recently joined holiday-rentals.
I'm interested to know how they are "finding the owners of the data we have been using"!
Have you asked for your ad to be deactivated? If so, I would be interested to hear whether they do in fact deactivate their your ad.
I think that we should suggest to Ross that holiday-rentals sends an email to all their existing advertisers, advising them of this scam, and tells them that if they do find that their ad has been cloned, they should request that it is immediately deactivated...
(EDIT - I was originally writing this in response to Tansy's post, but must have been doing so at the same time as Paolo, who got in first! Having read his response, I realise that he is probably right - there's probably not much point in everyone requesting that their site is deactivated because they probably won't do it anyway)
Last edited by Normandy Cow on Mon Jun 20, 2005 8:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.