Guests of guests...

From the moment they step through the door your bookings become guests, and their experiences determine whether they ever come back.
la vache!
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Guests of guests...

Post by la vache! »

Does anyone have a policy about extra guests in the property (other than those on the booking form?) When people staying have invited friends over before, they have always asked if thats OK first, which I appreciate. Yesterday some people invited a friend over who lives nearby in Normandy without asking, he spent all afternoon in the pool then stayed overnight in their house . I was a bit annoyed that they hadn't said anything, but I may be biased in that he seemed to correspond to all the 'dodgy' English I have come across and avoid at all costs since being in France, i.e., driving a scruffy old truck (he's a "builder") with English plates and no insurance on the windscreen. He also parked on my lawn without asking.
Should I just accept that they rented the house, therefore as long as they don't exceed the specified number in the house as stated in the Ts & Cs, they can invite whoever to stay?
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paolo
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Post by paolo »

If it is within the T & Cs you can't do much about it but grit your teeth. This happens to me but not with lorry on the lawn rudeness thrown in.

Or you can make space in your rental agreement for the names of the tenants and state that nobody else will be allowed to use the house.
Paolo
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musicmonkey
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Post by musicmonkey »

Susan, We have the following statement on details that we send out once we have received a deposit. It won't be legally binding but makes the point. "Please respect the maximum number of guests as per booking. Only persons mentioned on the booking form will be permitted to stay in the house."

Perhaps you could include something similar for the future to avoid a similar situation. We have had people add extra people but they have always asked first which gives us the option to decide.
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vrooje
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Post by vrooje »

Hmm... we've not had this happen yet, but I don't think there's anything in our rental agreement that explicitly forbids it.

It's definitely a good idea to add something to it that at least states that visitors won't be allowed without your permission.

As to this guy, you would be well within your rights to at least ask him not to park on your lawn!
Brooke
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Alan Knighting
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Post by Alan Knighting »

Susan,

How infuriating! Hopefully a complete one-off situation never to be repeated.

However, at the risk of filling up your T&C with rules and regulations, I do think you need to make it clear that only the visitors themselves have any right be on the premises.

The other side of the coin is to ask yourself, apart from speaking to your visitors, what would you do or what could you do if too many turned up or if different people turned up or if they then did invite extra visitors. Having a right is one thing, enforcing it is another.

The information I pursue when taking a booking is typically to get the names of all adults and the names and ages of all children. I don't take bookings on the basis of "I am Fred (apologies to all Fred's) and there will be ten of us".

Regards

Alan
alexia s.
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Post by alexia s. »

I do the same as Alan ("get the names of all adults and the names and ages of all children.").
The big companies have stricter terms & conditions which specifically exclude the presence on the premises of anyone other than those named on the form. I don't do this because I think that someone who is irresponsable will bring another person any way (see Alan's remark about enforcing your contract) and , more importantly, it is a hostile clause which gives an unsympathetic image to the owner.
Re Alan's remark about enforcing your contract- with which I fully agree - my contract specifically limits the number of visitors staying in the property and provides for a penalty (deductable from the sec dep) if this limit is exceeded. As with any claim on a sec dep you will have to face the queston of proof, bad relations, etc - the aim of the contract is to avoid this situation as far as possible, while giving you some compensation if necessary.
Best,
Alexia.
la vache!
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Post by la vache! »

Thanks everybody for your comments, its useful, I wasn't sure if I was right to get a bit annoyed about this! I do the same as Alan and Alexia with the Ts and Cs, get all the names up front and there is also a clause that says that the maximum number x must not be exceeded without permission from the owner. But in this case, they did not exceed the maximum number, so I think I will do as suggested and insert a clause saying visitors other than those named on the original booking form are not allowed (without the owners permission??).
Is everybody certain that visitors read the Ts and Cs? I ask them to sign that they have read them, but judging by the fact that some of them still flout the rules, I wonder.
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Post by alexia s. »

No, Susan, they don't all read the t's & c's. If they do, they forget them most of the time (e.g. arrival time, date of payment of balance etc).
A lot of our visitors contact me just before arriving to ask if we provide linen: the fact that we do is clearly stated in their contract, which makes me wonder (sorry, Mina!) just how important linen is to them.
Best,
Alexia.
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Ju
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Post by Ju »

We have had this happen to us recently. I went round to water the plant one day to find two people I'd never met using the pool, and their car was still there the next day. I was never asked permission for them to stay. I too was anoyed, but I decided that it wasn't worth the bad feeling to say anything. It didn't actually cost us anything and I felt very awkward saying anything.

If you don't live on site or nearby you have no way of knowing whether this happens or not. Perhaps sometimes ignorance is bliss.

Ju
alexia s.
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Post by alexia s. »

EXCEEDING THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE SPECIFIED IN THE CONTRACT:
You don't need to justify your objection to a breach of contract - the visitor has accepted your t & c and is legally bound to abide by them - but you can always explain why you include, for ex, a restriction on numbers.
The effect is cumulative, and you mightn't notice each extra scratch & stain, but you could point out that the higher the density of occupation in a property, the greater the wear & tear (depreciation). There is also an incrase in the risk of accidental breakage, and risk carries a price (the sec dep doesn't cover your time replacing broken items). There is higher water & electricity/gas consumption. If your accommodation is part of a complex, there is the additional noise factor.
We own a studio which is about 40m2 and restrict occupancy to 2. A surprising number of properties of the same size accept up to 6 people. A savvy holiday-maker will know that the condtions of the 2 kinds of accommodation will be very different & this will in turn filter the kind of people who rent these 40m2.
Best,
Alexia.
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Alan Knighting
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Post by Alan Knighting »

Alexia,

You must be joking! Up to 6 people sharing 40m² (20’ x 20’)? In the UK I think a local authority housing officer would designate that sort of density as being unfit for human habitation.

Where are the beds? Where are the wardrobes? Where is the living space? Where is the dining space? Where is the kitchen? Where is the bathroom/WC?

My reaction is that certain types of properties will attract certain types of visitors and there might be a direct connection between the property and how it is treated by the visitors.

Any further thoughts?

Regards

Alan
Clexane
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Post by Clexane »

We expect our visitors to give us the name of all guests - we ask. I do not mind them having guests and dont expect to be asked if they are only staying overnight so long as they do not exceed the maximum occupancy.

If their guests are staying we would expect that they inform us ... as we provide all linen, towels etc.

If they exceed occupancy, I would charge them for the additional guests whether they ask or not. Yes it would be a fight (if they didn't ask) but we wouldn't want them back anyhow.
So you wanted a holiday home in france ...

www.villaemmanuelle.com
alexia s.
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Post by alexia s. »

Alan, I'm not joking. There's even 27m2 for 5 people on my favourite rentals site..... which, in turn, is surpassed (underpassed?) by 16m2 for 4 people. Just tap in Studio for France (min& max) & you'll see the listings.
I have no doubt that certain types of properties will attract certain types of visitors.
Best,
Alexia.
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Alan Knighting
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Post by Alan Knighting »

Alexia,
..... which, in turn, is surpassed (underpassed?) by 16m2 for 4 people.
That's less than half the area of my swimming pool.

The whole idea makes me shudder. What a way to have a holiday!

The "coal holes" Tansy talks about must seem almost spacious in comparison.
Just tap in Studio for France (min& max) & you'll see the listings.
What listing site are you referring to?

Regards

Alan
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Alan Knighting
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Post by Alan Knighting »

Alexia,

I followed your suggestion, I searched your favourite rental site and looked at individual properties. Now I understand. While some properties are extremely spacious others are absolutely microscopic. Packing as many people as possible into as small a space as possible is obviously a skill in its own right.
  • With the judicious use of bunk beds, sofa-beds and beds on shelves 4/5/6 people can sleep in the living area, so who needs a bedroom?

    If there is enough room for people to eat on the hoof (i.e. standing), who needs a dining room?

    A “fully equipped� kitchen only needs a portable two ring burner and a combined grill/oven/microwave, so who needs a kitchen?

    A shower cubicle can be called a bathroom, so who needs a bathroom?
With such a rich variety of properties available everyone should be able to find something.

Regards

Alan
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