difficult guests!

From the moment they step through the door your bookings become guests, and their experiences determine whether they ever come back.
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Alan Knighting
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Post by Alan Knighting »

Clexane wrote: ....Even walking into a solicitors office and getting a letter will cost them 300-400.......
I am usually Fluffy and I don't want to fall out with anyone but, as a former solicitor, I have to say that is unutterable rubbish in any currency know to man, other than Matabele Beans.

Most UK solicitors offer a legal advice scheme and it is free for the first half hour.

There is a joke, or perhaps it is meant seriously:-

"99% of solicitors give the others a bad name."

Perhaps it should be changed to:-

"99% of clients try to give solicitors a bad name."

Revelling in being an ex.

Regards.

Alan
Clexane
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Post by Clexane »

Alan,

I was thinking Euros.

In my experience most solicitors will charge you to get engaged in a case and to write a letter. Yes they may give you an initial consultation to hear out the case but after this they will demand money and certainly if they put pen to paper - so to speak.

In this instance I think any sane solictor will send them on there way. If they do engage they will do one of two things

1. Write a letter and charge a fee - we can debate a fee but I will be hard pressed to be convinced it will be less than 200 Euro - this is what I have been charged repeatedly in the past for issues in France.

2. If they fully engage they will ask for money in trust to cover the process unless the client is well known. This will normally not be less than many hundreds if not thousands.

I also don't speak about this from a few points of experience but from my knowledge of my brother who owns his own legal practice in yet another country and the many stories he tells me every time we meet.

As such my point was for the unhappy guests to get serious they would have to commit serious funds - and they can't get serious without a solicitor - Solicitors are professionals and they cost money and are rarely cheap or free
So you wanted a holiday home in france ...

www.villaemmanuelle.com
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Alan Knighting
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Post by Alan Knighting »

Clexane,
In this instance I think any sane solictor will send them on there way.
I think, in one short sentence, you have put your finger on the truth.

Regards

Alan
A-two
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Post by A-two »

Fraise wrote:I'm a bit confused.Are we talking about the security deposit?
Yes I was. What I was suggesting was to use the security deposit refund as leverage to settle the rent refund issue. All arguments are based on a misunderstanding, but in Skye's situation, there is no reasoning with the person, so I would not even bother explaining my side of it, rather I would go for a quick and clean solution that doesn't need a lawyer.

To explain, Skye's original post makes it clear that the guests have already been and gone and now returned home. I assumed no damage done, also a similar contract to ours, whereby the security deposit is fully refundable if they leave the place as they find it.

Personally, I would get the refund check out to them as fast as possible to fullfill my obligation to them under the terms of the legally binding contract we have both agreed. Two wrongs don't make a right. When they receive it, they would be in no doubt that my check had been sent in full and final settlement of all my debts to them, because exactly that would be noted on the face of the check (or the reverse of the check depending on which country you bank). If they then banked my check, in effect, they would have settled with me, rent and all. End of story. No further communication with them is required or desireable. They can be ignored.

If, on the other hand, they are still not satisfied and want to carry on arguing with me about the rent, then they cannot bank the security deposit check, so now they stand to lose both.

It forces the issue to the extent that they have to get off the fence and make a decision, at the same time encouraging them to accept something to which they are entitled, rather than fight for something to which they are not entitled and possibly lose more in the long run. If you were them, would you bank that check? Let me guess that's a yes.

However, if you do not explicitly explain to them that the security deposit refund check you are sending them is in full and final settlement, they can cash it and continue arguing that the matter of the rent still isn't settled. This may go on for quite a while if they are hoping you will pay out eventually just for a quiet life.

That's my point.

Different strokes for different folks, so I am not saying that what I would do is right for everybody, but personally, I wouldn't waste a lawyer's time on this one, even if it is offered for free. If I ever needed that lawyer urgently for something really serious that is genuine, I might find myself waiting in line for an appointment if I had first approached him about this, which is obviously frivolous.

Just my opinion.

P.S. We've had our share of guests from hell, which has definitely toughened us up as you can tell! But all this year, we've been blessed with the most wonderful folks, week after week, so we're very thankful for that.[/b]

(I have edited this reply to anwer Fraise's question below)
Last edited by A-two on Sat Aug 06, 2005 6:26 am, edited 4 times in total.
Waves from America
Fraise
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Post by Fraise »

Joanna- I'm a "full and final settlement" virgin.If I should ever need to use it,with a UK cheque,where do you write it?
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Ciapolin
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Post by Ciapolin »

Fraise,

You need to include the words in the covering letter you send. It is probably better to keep it short and to the point so there is no danger of opening any cans of worms.
Carole-Anne
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A-two
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Post by A-two »

Fraise wrote:Joanna- I'm a "full and final settlement" virgin.If I should ever need to use it,with a UK cheque,where do you write it?
Fraise,
I was just editing my reply above to make that point clearer when you posted this, sorry for the confusion.

In the UK, you write it straight across the back of the cheque or the same place you would put an account number for a bill you are paying. US Checks have a space for this on the front of the check - it's called "the memo".
Waves from America
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Ciapolin
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Post by Ciapolin »

In the UK, you write it straight across the back of the cheque
I have never heard of this practice, although it wouldn't hurt to do it. I think you still to include it in a covering note.
Carole-Anne
Cascina Ciapolin
www.piedmont-holidays.com
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vrooje
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Post by vrooje »

Could they not just call you up and demand a check without the memo note on it, saying that you owe them the deposit back whether or not there is a dispute on the rest of the rental?

I'm just trying to play devil's advocate here... I think Joanna's idea is a great one.

As a somewhat related aside: just recently we got a new credit card and they sent us a check for $5... you had to read the fine print to find out that if you cashed the check you were agreeing to enroll in some program that would cost far more than $5 in the long run. Endorsements are signatures, so be careful when you cash checks -- caveat emptor applies when you're not even trying to buy anything!
Brooke
A-two
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Post by A-two »

vrooje wrote:Could they not just call you up and demand a check without the memo note on it, saying that you owe them the deposit back whether or not there is a dispute on the rest of the rental?
Yes, they could do that, to which I would reply, "Fine, but right now we're talking about your demand for a refund of the rent in full. When that's settled, then we'll deal with the matter of your security deposit refund".

Security deposit can be used to defray legal costs, at least that's what our contract states, so it's reasonable for the owner to want to deal with contested issue first, rather than the reverse.

Anyway, I find it very difficult to believe these folks seriously expect to get the rent refund, they just want to give Skye a hard time. That will soon stop when they realize their security refund is at stake.
Waves from America
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tansy
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Post by tansy »

when do we get an update from Skye?
skye
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difficult guests

Post by skye »

Just to update Tansy and everyone else who took the time to reply, we don't want to set a precedent here but we have agreed to return half the cost -as a gesture of goodwill ( probably because we know how disappointing it can be as we had our fair share of quaint holiday venues in the bad old days but never complained). Obviously it would be better if we were on site but we still work full time here in England and spend our time in France working on the houses! I think we're missing the point somehow but it is good to know how everyone else copes.Thanks to everyone.

Skye
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