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Owners Direct ultimatum arrived today
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Martha



Joined: 16 Apr 2006
Posts: 2138
Location: Chamonix

PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

paolo wrote:
Martha wrote:
No doubt HA will try to prevent names on their listing soon enough. : /

I'm sure that is coming next. I also wonder how long it will be until we are complaining about being forced to go from online booking to instant booking. Maybe a year?


I agree. I've seen airbnb testing the 'instant booking' checkbox checked as a default, before now.
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declanja



Joined: 27 Mar 2008
Posts: 494
Location: Nice France

PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dont wish to rehash lots of previous discussions we have had re HA and their changes. I would much prefer if we could build relationships with our guests as in the past and arrange payment outside their company. But Airbnb changed the rules and HA and TA decuded they had to follow or lose. To "Airbnb" is now almost a verb like to "Google". Its business unfortunately, we have the option of working with these sites or without them. Some people can generate enough business without these big sites and some of us like me can't. I really hope a traditional site will spring up and challange their dominance but I,m not holding my breath.
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bornintheuk



Joined: 12 Jun 2011
Posts: 414
Location: Southern Charente

PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

declanja wrote:
I dont wish to rehash lots of previous discussions we have had re HA and their changes. I would much prefer if we could build relationships with our guests as in the past and arrange payment outside their company. But Airbnb changed the rules and HA and TA decuded they had to follow or lose. To "Airbnb" is now almost a verb like to "Google". Its business unfortunately, we have the option of working with these sites or without them. Some people can generate enough business without these big sites and some of us like me can't. I really hope a traditional site will spring up and challange their dominance but I,m not holding my breath.


+1 Sad but true, we are just a resource for these sites now.
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COYS



Joined: 06 Jun 2015
Posts: 606
Location: Greek Islands

PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

declanja wrote:
I dont wish to rehash lots of previous discussions we have had re HA and their changes. I would much prefer if we could build relationships with our guests as in the past and arrange payment outside their company. But Airbnb changed the rules and HA and TA decuded they had to follow or lose. To "Airbnb" is now almost a verb like to "Google". Its business unfortunately, we have the option of working with these sites or without them. Some people can generate enough business without these big sites and some of us like me can't. I really hope a traditional site will spring up and challange their dominance but I,m not holding my breath.


Very true declanja.
Mrs C & me are most definitely in the Ďwithoutí camp & will operate part time if necessary but we are almost resigned to our last year of renting. I think the OTA squeeze on ownership is also changing the holidaymaker demographic & Iím not sure we want a part of the new generation.
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paolo



Joined: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 3928
Location: Provence, France

PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Martha wrote:
I agree. I've seen airbnb testing the 'instant booking' checkbox checked as a default, before now.

When I look on airbnb, the instant booking box is always checked as a default. If you are aware of it you can uncheck it but it is not that obvious.
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paolo



Joined: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 3928
Location: Provence, France

PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

russellt wrote:
paolo wrote:
being forced to


Really??


Assuming you want to use one of the big sites, which after all dominate the search engines and spend a great deal on advertising so that the public will go directly to them rather than perform a search.
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russellt



Joined: 09 Dec 2014
Posts: 307
Location: Ivybridge, Devon, UK

PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

paolo wrote:


Assuming you want to use one of the big sites


I think that makes my point nicely. We are not being forced. We are electing to do so. Itís a business decision, for perceived want of an alternative. That we are paying our captors to torment us, and are also implicated in increasing the cost of holiday accommodation for all, doesnít seem to matter to most of us. So, bring on the pain?? I can assure you, there is more heading our way.

Given my other, embryonic venture, I have done a lot of thinking about the market and listen to it daily Ė supply side and demand side. There is a clear requirement for an alternative channel to the OTA.

Nobody is suggesting a knock-out blow. These channels are not mutually exclusive. They could co-exist, each with a nuanced proposition Ė and it is slowly happening. Let the consumer then make the choice.

It is the victimhood of the supply side, the hopelessness, the inaction and the use of phrases like Ďforced toí that donít ring true now. Yes, things are different. The market has moved. So, ride both horses and see what happens. Be neither ostrich nor rabbit. We independents are in a much stronger position than we realise.
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Martha



Joined: 16 Apr 2006
Posts: 2138
Location: Chamonix

PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

paolo wrote:

When I look on airbnb, the instant booking box is always checked as a default. If you are aware of it you can uncheck it but it is not that obvious.


Interesting - perhaps it stays unchecked for me as I have unchecked it already. It would make sense that it's remembered as a preference.

I am all for trying all approaches, yours looks good too, russelt and when I have some time I will add us to it Smile

However, from my own experience, I have been listed with many smaller specialist independent agencies - and still am - but they have never been able to provide the level of bookings that we would need to survive. Even a very well established local booking site, with excellent Google visibility and good traffic, doesn't get us more than one booking every year.

Ditto for our own site which does get us a reasonable level of bookings but again it is just not enough.


I block all the peak weeks on HA as I can fill them myself, but for the other weeks, the big sites provide over half the income. Returning guests are a huge help of course.


So yes - it's a choice, but if you want to keep your head above water you are effectively forced to go along with them to some degree, in my view, no matter how hard you are paddling in every other possible channel.
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bornintheuk



Joined: 12 Jun 2011
Posts: 414
Location: Southern Charente

PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Although not being "forced" to use on of the big sites the position of them on a Google search really makes the decision for you in respect of the customer searching who do not seem to want to spend the time or effort drilling down in the results.
In the main, but not all cases especially with niche market properties, most properties who are not on one of the big sites will be lost in the "also rans".
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Mouse



Joined: 20 Jun 2006
Posts: 7098
Location: Balearics

PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can someone explain to me; in this scenario what is the benefit of staying on subscription?
Would it be better to go on commission?
What are the differences now?

Mousie (awaiting the email as renewal is due January)
x
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russellt



Joined: 09 Dec 2014
Posts: 307
Location: Ivybridge, Devon, UK

PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Martha wrote:

when I have some time

Do it with your cuppa this afternoon. I look forward to welcoming you. Very Happy
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The Olive Grove



Joined: 25 Mar 2007
Posts: 742

PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mouse wrote:
Can someone explain to me; in this scenario what is the benefit of staying on subscription?
Would it be better to go on commission?
What are the differences now?

Mousie (awaiting the email as renewal is due January)
x
I am still on subscription. Commission would have cost me much more this year.
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declanja



Joined: 27 Mar 2008
Posts: 494
Location: Nice France

PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It depends on your level of bookings, Mouse. The commission is much higher on commission only than on subscription. I think for me it would only be cheaper on commission if I had less than 6 bookings. I get more than 6 so it still makes sense to stay on subscription.
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COYS



Joined: 06 Jun 2015
Posts: 606
Location: Greek Islands

PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bornintheuk wrote:
Although not being "forced" to use on of the big sites the position of them on a Google search really makes the decision for you in respect of the customer searching who do not seem to want to spend the time or effort drilling down in the results.
In the main, but not all cases especially with niche market properties, most properties who are not on one of the big sites will be lost in the "also rans".


Iíd agree in part but in my experience it is those that can be bothered making an effort that are likely to be the better guests, repeats visiors etc. The instant gratification brigade who want it right now, without a little research or effort are the ones that give me by far the most headaches.
I suppose it also depends on how many weeks is adequate for each individual as to how far we are willing to bend for the OTAs but I have friends locally who are completely bucking the trend & selling out repeatedly at premium rates without so much as a single third party listing. Admittedly they are very pro-active with targeted marketing, social media & so on but they are doing well enough to market other properties on the side as well so not bad for Ďalso ransí. We donít all have the skill set, time or drive for it but for some it can be done. Horses for courses & all that.
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declanja



Joined: 27 Mar 2008
Posts: 494
Location: Nice France

PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sure it can be done especially if you have a unique property or are located in an area with few competitors. My apartment is in Nice and HA have over 15000 properties listed if you search for Nice. So by playing to their rules(holding my nose!), I can get higher up their ranking.
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