best use of rooms advice needed please

[charles cawley]

Good point about the en suites. I got a bit carried away.

'If you can convert the dining room into a bedroom and en suite' might have been a better bit of advice.

Until recently, B&B was the key area where en suites were vital... but they seem to be becoming more important in the holiday let market as more people, used to overseas holidays, are staying in the UK for their holiday breaks.

[pepsipuss]

I would not underestimate the value of extra space in larger groups (6 or more) to allow for different activities particularly in climates where outside living is not the norm. In the current economic climate I think holidaymakers are going to fall into two categories: those whose budgets are squeezed and will go for something where the ratio of rooms/bathrooms to people is quite high and those who have never had to worry about money and are still quite well off and who want their space. I would prefer the latter as clients because on the whole the wear and tear and bills will be less.

I agree that dining rooms are not necessary provided that a full house can comfortably be accommodated in the kitchen. If you say the kitchen seats 4/6 then more than 6 would presumably be a struggle?

More appealing to me would be a second sitting room/games room with a second TV. If you put a sofa bed in here but do not promote it you might find that it is useful for couples who occasionally need a night away from one another (snoring, late stages of pregnancy etc) and if you have no twins it could also be used in the case of a party of 6 to accommodate a child rather than having to share a bed.

Bathrooms are key as others have said. Even if not en-suite ideally one bathroom per two people or at very least two bathrooms and one separate loo between 6.

[charles cawley]

From experience of visiting Americans in the UK, they tend to be more tolerant of sofa beds. (Perhaps people away from their home country are less precious and more 'can-do')?

Occupancy is important but without accompanying extras its benefit can be counteracted by a reduction in bookings caused by people expecting quality matching or better than they have at home.

Location is important. If you are by the seaside or in a cottage on Offa's Dyke the way niche markets behave alters.

Certainly, in our area, it is far better to have occupy 6 with more ensuites than occupy 8 with, say, two shared bathrooms.

The rates for occupy 8 with limited or no en suites compared to occupy 6 with ensuites are not that much different, indeed, in some cases the higher quality occupy 6 rates can be higher.

Again, this is in our area which is inland and tends to cater more for adult guests and less for families... although there are some very successful family orientated operations their number is limited. I agree, they do find games rooms a useful draw.

[Nemo]

If there's room to eat in the kitchen then I would definitely go for the second sitting room option with TV, some sort of game console etc & sofa bed. the sofa would most likely be used as a sofa but it gives you options when required. In a rural location it sounds like the guests may well be at home in the evening more than out at restaurants etc.

If the dining table has to go into the living room then no, think again. The point about bathrooms is also valid. Two families need a minimum of two bathrooms.

How much demand will there be for two families or four couples into a three bed property? 8 or 9 people need plenty of living space after all. I would have though the greater appeal would be a family with a boy & girl who are too old to share, parents plus 3 or 4 kids or multi generational ie family plus grandparents?

[charles cawley]

It is a difficult choice.

The market for quality is holding up very well where the mid range is level pegging. The lower quality cottages are taking a very severe hit and will either have to catch up, cut rates to the bone to service a growing cash strapped niche or go out of business.

If occupy 8 means lower quality than occupy 6 then the question is about which niches you wish to serve and their relative strengths.

Had we not insisted on our members reaching certain quality levels we would not have survived... but that is in relation to our region.

[fionac]

Thanks charles and greenbarn for your speedy and useful replies.

I realised in the early hours this morning I had forgottten to factor the bathrooms into the equation! There is a bathroom with separate loo downstairs and one bedroom has an ensuite with loo and sink but no shower (planned to refit with shower but decided to get one season under our belts to confirm that people will actually want to stay here).

The kitchen isn't big enough to comfortably seat 8 or to prep food for that many. I think our market wil be couples pre or post children, groups of friends and outdoorsy families. There is some great walking and off road biking to be done in the area. I think best strategy is to make it a spacious 6/7 ( 2 doubles and the biggest room with a zip up double and a single) priced not too high so still reasonable if only sleeping 4. Just got to decide how much that will be....

Does that sound reasonable.?

[fionac]

Opps just realised there were more answers on the second page - thanks everyone.

I think our guests will be similar to those who might visit Shropshire so I think top quality is the way to go. Perhaps the second shower needs to go in sooner rather than later...

So we will definitely be needing to replace the vintage kitchen then?

[greenbarn]

I'd suggest pricing it at the 6/7 level, then offer and publish a reduced rate (avoid the word "discount"!!) for a max of 4 people using only 2 of the 3 bedrooms. That way you get a realistic rate for full use of the property, but don't discourage 4 people or less from booking. Those bookings will still give you a reasonable rate, particularly when you take into account one less bedroom to clean, less energy usage etc etc.

If you underprice to target the smaller group you'll still get people asking for a discount for under occupancy, in the reasonable belief that you've priced for 6/7. As you get to know your market and you become known, you may find that later on you can sell at full price regardless of occupancy numbers.

[charles cawley]

Pricing depends on the size of niche demand.

We often advise owners to price occupy 6 at occupy 4 levels. In certain cases, we advise occupy 8 to be priced at occupy 6.

This is because, depending on location, quality and other factors, the respective higher occupancy niches can be much smaller in terms of the market than the lower ones.

So, if you price higher for higher occupancy, in certain cases, you could end up finding people who will pay the higher rate for more occupancy, but you will get fewer bookings because there are fewer groups of that number wishing to book.

This also depends on the local supply of different occupancies of holiday cottage accommodation.

This effect is particularly strong for occupy 3 cottages. The niche for 3 people is very small so we nearly always advise pricing occupy 3 at 2 rates. You, then, benefit from the couples market, which is a very large niche, and the occasional extra booking for 3.

Local markets often dictate the most effective rates to apply. If you use a proportional rate to occupancy, other sharper local owners could undercut you using an apparently less logical approach. Before setting rates it is worth trying to estimate the demand size of different niches.

The aim is, of course, to get the most occupancy possible with the most income without incurring excessive costs. Applying linear pricing logic to rates can cause lower occupancy; even if you get higher rates for bookings, this can leave you out of pocket with radically lower annual income.

You can offer different rates for different numbers and other methods of getting around these problems, but these can confuse and many like to make up their minds without having to speak to owners. In any case, it does not get round the fact many owners do not price in direct proportion to occupancy. Too often, experience has taught them otherwise.

Setting rates is not easy.

[Nemo]

I think best strategy is to make it a spacious 6/7 ( 2 doubles and the biggest room with a zip up double and a single) priced not too high so still reasonable if only sleeping 4.

I don't know what the others think but I would perhaps go with a second zip link to give you a twin room option? It doesn't seem to be ideal that the only singles are three in one room. How often are you likely to have three couples needing three doubles compared to other family/friend groups who would have different needs?

[fionac]

Setting rates is not easy.

I agree with that!! Especially as there I am yet to find another property like ours in the area. Lots more research to be done.....

[fionac]

How often are you likely to have three couples needing three doubles compared to other family/friend groups who would have different needs?

This is a really good question. And one I have no idea how to find the answer to!!

I think on balance, seeing as we only have a double and a single in place so far and will need to buy the other two doubles they may as well be zip link. Only downside I can see is that the one in the room with the single will have to be a 5 foot due to space. Can fit a 6ft in one room and already have a double in the other. That means a rather mind numbing variety of bed linen!

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[fionac]

Oh - I just can't get the hang of this quoting thing...

[Giddy Goat]

Oh - I just can't get the hang of this quoting thing...

Just click on quote Fiona and edit what you want to write around it by positioning your cursor and using the return key. All below, or some above and some below.

Just take care that anything fancy like making a word or phrase in bold etc, by highlighting it then clicking bold or italics, colour or whatever, has the prefix eg [x] and suffix eg [/x] for the bit required immediately before and after the word or phrase when you review it.

Click quote on my message and you will see (the back end of )what I have done. It looks a bit scrambled but it's simples really.

[greenbarn]

they may as well be zip link. Only downside I can see is that the one in the room with the single will have to be a 5 foot due to space.

I'd suggest avoiding a five foot zip/link. The resulting singles will only be 2'6", which is not suitable for adults - unless of course you only see them being used by children? You'd also need to ensure that you made it clear that they were only 2'6" wide; a standard single is 3ft wide and that's what people would expect to find. I'd get very grumpy if confronted with a 2'6" wide bed, and would deem it "not fit for purpose".

Why cram 3 into one bedroom, rather than going for the full size zip/link which gives you the option of a superking or two full size singles? We do that and it hits a wide market, especially as we're in one of the best areas in the country for walking and there's a strong market for groups of friends (often all ladies).

Eeeeeh - there's a lot to think about isn't there? We've all been there - I just wish I'd found LMH when we were still in the thinking stage!

BTW, I'm not sure if Charles has mentioned it, but if you go to his website you'll find a "Cottage Owners Info Pack". Worth a look. Usual disclaimer - I have no connection etc etc with Charles other than being grateful for the inside information he so willingly supplies.