Thoughts please

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Casa Montana
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Thoughts please

Post by Casa Montana »

Hi all,

Just wanted to pick Spain b&b owners brains or anyone else for that matter :-)

Would you move to Spain from the UK to run a b&b in the current economic climate??

Bit of background - I've got a steady ish contract job with an events company + my wife runs a fairly succesful hairdressing salon in Scotland.

We're desperate to move to Spain, to live in what we think is our beautiful Spanish house, but not sure if it would be out of the frying pan into the fire seen as Spain (and europe for that matter) is on it's rear end financially.

Just wondered what peoples thoughts would be?

Do you think we're completely mad even thinking about it?

Thanks

Carl :-)
ccazes
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Post by ccazes »

Who knows?

I know nothing of running a B&B in Spain and what similar businesses are going through at this time. But if you do a bit of research and write up a business plan keeping in mind what your minimum standards of living are, you could evaluate what kind of minimum turnover you would need to achieve this. You would then be able to ask others what their real life experience is and see if this matches up with your plan.

If I were considering such a move, I would also seriously look at how it would affect my health care options and retirement planning depending on my age.

Each time we leave our house in France my husband is already talking about the next time we will be back, I am sometimes surprised by the wistfulness in his voice. Other times he starts talking about looking for a job in the area, I often have to very gently bring him back down to earth or at least point out the pros and the cons. Its completely understandable to want to look at your options - but under the cold, hard light of an unbiased microscope!
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CSE
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Post by CSE »

I am sorry to say it is a question(s) to answer.
There are a lot of us who run what you call B&B. The market here is Spain seems to be divided into several market places. What market are you aiming for?
Are you prepared to go for all of the correct licences? How long will that take you?
What is the competition like?
Are you thinking about converting Casa Montana or are you going to purchase something elsewhere?
What is the ultimate goal of this move?
Do you appreciate the rules for running a business in Spain is completely different to one in the UK?
Are you up to speed with the current requirements regarding health and taxation regulations here in Spain?
Sorry more questions than askers!
Never try to out-stubborn your guests.
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Post by CSE »

Sorry I should have said that whist your questions seems to be about the current climate you maybe have to think also about the whole picture. Hence my questions, from which you will see things are not so simple as you may have thought.
Never try to out-stubborn your guests.
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French Cricket
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Post by French Cricket »

This is not specifically to do with Spain but just a few random thoughts on running a B and B! I don't know whether this is something you've done before, Carl, but if not, think carefully about whether it's for you.

1. Keeping an adequate amount of personal space for yourselves is absolutely vital. It's no fun living out your life in a cramped and semi-furnished attic when your guests are lounging in space and luxury in all the best rooms.

2. You need more rooms than you think to make a living, and high occupancy rates in them too. IMHO to keep two of you the absolute minimum would be five top-end rooms, and even at that I'd say you'd need a back up income. I don't know about tax and other charges in Spain but I imagine they don't come cheap, any more than they do here.

3. What kind of people are you? Do you like to have a social life, go out to concerts, festivals, friends for dinner, go away for the weekend, do things spontaneously? If so, best forget running a b and b! You'll be tied to the house for most of your life (you certainly won't be able to afford staff).

4. Do you like the buzz of office life, of working as part of a team? If so, you're probably going to struggle. Running a b and b is, strangely, an essentially solitary activity where (apart from your guests) your only daily contact is with your partner.

5. And at the same time ... will you be happy with 'other people' in your house all the time - having to keep quiet, wear earphones to listen to music, make compromises, put clothes on to run to the loo in the middle of the night ...

6. Can you cook? Offering dinner is pretty essential to get bookings.

7. Have you got capital back up of the equivalent of at least 2 years income?

8. How do you feel about working, possibly, from 6h00 to midnight, seven days a week?

There are lots of other questions I could throw at you, but those are the ones I usually ask people!

This is the third place I've run as a b and b / chambre d'hôtes; the first was in 1986, in Yorkshire; they've all different, they've all been successful and they've all been start ups. The first two were in big old village houses, not unlike your lovely house as it happens. This time around though we're in the middle of nowhere with lots of space around - and we renovated our house, not quite from scratch but with the chance to design the layout and use of the rooms, and we did so with the benefit of years of experience! I can't tell you what a difference that's made - to our guests as well as ourselves.

During that time I've seen so many people come and go from the business, always people who've given up good jobs for a lifestyle change, most recently a friend here who moved here and opened her cdh 6 years ago but found that she was dying inside from the daily routines and the lack of banter with office colleagues (sad situation because her partner was very happy here and wanted to stay, but in the end he had to choose France or her).

As for me, I love doing what we do and wouldn't do anything else (though I am a bit odd :lol: :lol:). But - and this is a big but - it's not all I do, so other bits of me get fed as well. For me that's vital.

It's good that you're asking the questions, Carl, but as casasantoestevo says, there's a big picture to look at beyond the economic climate!
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Nemo
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Post by Nemo »

Excellent post FC. Questions anyone thinking about a B&B should think long and hard about.

We have a spare downstairs room with a potential ensuite and separate access from outside. It was destined to be something else, but life has taken a completely different turn to what was planned. I look at it and think it would be too small for a holiday let but would be ideal for B&B; however I know I would never be happy with providing breakfasts and all that running a B&B entails.
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Post by e-richard »

Having read all of FC's post, I cannot imagine why FC or anyone would want to run a B&B !

Surely there must be an upside ?

... even for people who are not a bit odd :D
** Richard
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French Cricket
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Post by French Cricket »

e-richard wrote: ... even for people who are not a bit odd :D
You'd have to ask someone else about that, Richard :lol:

But yes, there's an upside. For me it's about meeting all sorts of people you wouldn't otherwise meet, from all over the world; about getting to know them; sharing your home with them and the area you live in, know and love; talking with them sometimes late into the night; sharing food with them; seeing them relax and fall in love with their surroundings and the region; and sometimes becoming friends with them and keeping in contact long after their visit has ended.

There's a certain kind of buzz in all that. If it doesn't 'buzz' for you, it quickly becomes a grind, a tie and a never ending chore.

One thing's for sure though. It's not a moneyspinner and never will be.
Casa Montana
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Thoughts please

Post by Casa Montana »

Hi all,

Firstly thanks for all your thoughts, it's much appreciated :-)
I am sorry to say it is a question(s) to answer.
There are a lot of us who run what you call B&B. The market here is Spain seems to be divided into several market places. What market are you aiming for?
Are you prepared to go for all of the correct licences? How long will that take you?
What is the competition like?
Are you thinking about converting Casa Montana or are you going to purchase something elsewhere?
What is the ultimate goal of this move?
Do you appreciate the rules for running a business in Spain is completely different to one in the UK?
Are you up to speed with the current requirements regarding health and taxation regulations here in Spain?
Sorry more questions than askers!
Hi Ian & Irene,

Market we're aiming for is probably walkers, mid aged/retired possibly (seems like our town would be suited to that demographic)
Competetion - There's a few other b&b's run by Spanish, but i think we would be not competeting with them anyway ie: more uk, non spanish posssibly. Although we'll take anyone :-)

We have already renovated Casa Montana from a wreck really to what it is now. So everything has been done to pension specs etc.... Just need to get it signed off at the townhall.

Yes we'll be going for all correct licences

Ultimate goal of the move is for a better quality of life than the UK (we haven't got rose tinted specs on & think it will be easy, far from it)

We probably haven't quite discovered the differences in running a Spanish business compared to a UK business.

No not really upto speed with current health and taxation regs - We are currently investigating etc....

Some good questions to ponder over and it's appreciated you putting them forward.

Thanks

Carl
Casa Montana
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Post by Casa Montana »

Hi French Cricket,

Thanks for your excellent post also :-)

It really is great to get some feedback from outside looking iin.

We haven't done it before so your right careful consideration needed.
1. Keeping an adequate amount of personal space for yourselves is absolutely vital. It's no fun living out your life in a cramped and semi-furnished attic when your guests are lounging in space and luxury in all the best rooms.
We've got a 1 bedroomed apartment at the top of the house which was specifically built with us in mind running a business from the house. It's defintely something to consider though.
You need more rooms than you think to make a living, and high occupancy rates in them too. IMHO to keep two of you the absolute minimum would be five top-end rooms, and even at that I'd say you'd need a back up income. I don't know about tax and other charges in Spain but I imagine they don't come cheap, any more than they do here.
We've got 3 x very large doubles + 1 twin - So i think this could work depending on what market we aim for.
What kind of people are you? Do you like to have a social life, go out to concerts, festivals, friends for dinner, go away for the weekend, do things spontaneously? If so, best forget running a b and b! You'll be tied to the house for most of your life (you certainly won't be able to afford staff).
This maybe a problem - I'm a musician by trade alongside doing my events job. So i do think i would miss that kind of socalising/gigging side. It would be a trade off though i think for a nice more relaxed pace of life. I think i would have to suck and see for a while.
And at the same time ... will you be happy with 'other people' in your house all the time - having to keep quiet, wear earphones to listen to music, make compromises, put clothes on to run to the loo in the middle of the night ... 6. Can you cook? Offering dinner is pretty essential to get bookings.
I think we'd be happy with other people enjoying the house & our village itself.
We both cook to a good standard so i could see us offering Have you got capital back up of the equivalent of at least 2 years income? dinner as an added extra.
Have you got capital back up of the equivalent of at least 2 years income?
No - Definetely not got 2 yrs income as a back up. We are thinking about keeping my wifes hair salon and putting a manager in place though and continuing to take an income from that (fingers crossed) So that's a back up plan.

I think we would also have other things supplementing the income like you do - For me i'm currently in the process of training to a TEFl qualified teacher (i have taught music tuition at degree level in the past, so i think this will help) + my wife would be hopefully doing some hairdressing work. Although she needs to get her Spanish up to speed.

It's a big leap of faith, but i think the kind of people we are we would make it work. It's just having the balls to do it :-)

We are very good at procrastinating and taking the safe easy option of staying in the UK with our reasonably paid jobs.

I would rather say ive tried though and failed than not to have tried at all :-)

Anyway sorry for the long reply. Much appreciated once again for everyones input.

Thanks

Carl :-) x
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Post by CSE »

The B&B thing is more for the English market. We own and run a Casa Rural the Spanish would not really know what a B&B would be, they normally expect the opportunity to eat an evening meal.

So going for the licences mean getting your “manipulador de alimentos” certificate too. Hopefully you can speak some Spanish it will make this certificate oh so easy to get.

To see what you need to run a Spanish company you must sit down with a Gestoría. They make things work. Ours can do everything from book keeping filling out our tax forms. You cannot run a business here without one. For instance fines for not paying taxes or getting tax returns in on time or correctly can be high. If you employ a Gestoría straight away, they will also help you obtain the right licences like for making noise* etc. They will also register your company and tell you of the various ways you can setup a company.
*Even though we are in the countryside we have one same as a bar.

Getting your business up and running will be quite hard, Aiming for one market is also going to limit your business.

Getting health cover is getting to be an issue for settlers from other EU countries now. However once you have set up your company you will be paying into the Spanish system that should not be any problem for you. Regarding tax you now have to declare any assets over something like 55€K which is outside of Spain. You do not seem to have to pay any taxes on this but that may change. Again huge fines for either not declaring or declaring and getting it wrong. Another case for a good Gestoría.

BTW maybe a change would be good. Have you read this news? viewtopic.php?t=19251
Never try to out-stubborn your guests.
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