Smoke/CO alarms...

[johnandtahra]

How many? Where? What type?

I'm hoping I can buy 10 year sealed lithium battery types, a CO detector in the living room (where we intend to have the wood-burner), with two smoke detectors (atomiser type), one in the entrance hall and one on the upstairs landing.

Is that enough? Or do I need something in the kitchen also?

[PW in Polemi]

I'm not an expert on UK requirements, but I would think you need at least a fire blanket in the kitchen, if not an extinguisher too.

Hopefully, somebody more knowledgeable in UK legislation & fire regs (like 7Aspire, maybe?) will come along to help you. In the meantime, I'm sure this has been discussed on LMH before - try a search.

[johnandtahra]

Oh, I tried a search and got a *lot* of stuff, but sadly a lot of it is irrelevant....

I think my basic question behind this is whether I need to have mains-wired alarms, etc., or will 'lifetime battery' alarms do. That way, I can avoid a bit of electrician expense... but only if it's allowable and safe.

[apexblue]

Book an inspection with the local fire service who will fit free fire alarms where appropriate.

We were advised to get fire blankets rather than extinguishers.

[tchn]

I'm not an expert on UK requirements, but I would think you need at least a fire blanket in the kitchen, if not an extinguisher too..

Our fire adviser suggested no extinguishers on the following grounds. Guest are not trained on the fire extinguishers, but if you leave them, they will be tempted to use them, which delays their escape. Extinguishers are to protect property, not people.

My thoughts on the alarms, is that battery is fine so long as you include frequent (every changeover) checks, and replace them well before they are due to expire. You need to do this for mains wired ones anyway, as they have a battery backup and, of course, in some fires the electrics will trip.

Where you place alarms and how many you need depends on whether they are loud enough to wake someone in the bedroom in a deep sleep, and whether smoke will reach them. If you have fire door smoke seals then you need detectors either side.

(Disclaimer - I am not an expert, I just risk assessed my own property - thoroughly - and then employed a fire adviser to visit and confirm my decisions were appropriate...this proved to be cost effective)

[Nemo]

I would have mains powered a hundred times over given a choice. I have one property on mains and one on battery. The one on mains, no issues. The battery powered one has (in its lifetime) had the battery removed, the battery bleep has gone off, the whole thing was removed, I bought a replacement with a long life battery and that too got taken. I could not ascertain why and the suspect guests never responded. It's a world of difference maintaining these things when you're not living in the property.

[tchn]

Nemo, those are very valid points, but with my mains systems we have had the same problems of beeping (due to dirt - we now vacuum ours, and due to a low back-up battery) and removal because of that (our mains one can still be taken off with a screwdriver in the flap). I haven't had it yet, but I'm sure someone will flip the switch in the fuse box - ours are on their own circuit, so it isn't immediately obvious if the circuit has gone, as it would be with a lighting circuit. I now have it in my guest instructions that they must test the alarms themselves.

Make something idiot proof, and they just find a better idiot...

[johnandtahra]

Just to clarify - the battery-powered smoke alarms I was referring to don't have removable batteries. What they have is batteries that are specifically designed to last for the lifespan of the alarm itself - 7 or 10 years is normal - at which point the alarm would need to be replaced. I've no concerns about longevity, assuming that the claims for battery life are accurate - but do want to make sure that it is 'up to code' for a FHL.

[Cas & Irene]

We consider in the beginning to use those ¨stand-alone¨ sensors, but choose finely for a (much more expensive) professional fire alarm-smoke detection system from Ajax.

Through the whole boat there are 13 sensors fitted, divided in sections and connected with a main computer unit. Power supply is with 230VAC and also an external 24VDC battery if the power. The system has also an internal backup battery

The big advantage which such a system is that it has a memory for the alarms. After a fire-smoke alarm, when the boat is rented as Self-Catering, I have to go to the boat and check in which section and also in which cabin the sensor was activated.

Guests can´t reset the system and I don´t give guests the reset code because I want to see which sensor was activated (and why!!) and want to make the decision by myself that everything is safe after the alarm.

Last 2 years we had 4 times fire alarm, 2 times in the galley through the toaster, and 2 times in the cabins because guests keep the hair dryer to close to the sensor. When we had the alarm by the toaster I was Self Catering, so I had to jump in my car to reset the system.
Now I advise the guests to use the toaster under the hood, in case of they would like to make black toast

[greenbarn]

If you're converting a property to FHL that involves any form of alteration the fire requirements will be covered by the building regs, although the requirements seem to be inconsistent from one area to another.

As an example, we had to have a fully interlinked mains alarm system such that if one alarm is triggered the whole lot go off. The kitchen has a heat detector rather than a smoke detector. The regs should also cover what form of emergency lighting you need, along with internal fire doors, exits etc.

The key point to remember is that the safety standards for a holiday let need to be higher than for domestic property or even long-term lets. Guests are in a strange environment and need to be able to escape in smoke and darkness when they don't know the layout of the building, or the immediate exterior surroundings. (Presumably a tenant in a long-term let isn't allowed to set light to the place for the first couple of weeks until they're familiar with the layout )

Might be worth talking to the local building control department. We employed a fire consultant during the building conversion work, but he was completely OTT even specifying detectors in storage cupboards and everything you could think of - and he wasn't making money supplying, just advising. The problem then was that having got his official (full asbestos underpants) recommendations for the purposes of satisfying the buildings inspector, we had to adopt them all.

[Nemo]

Just to clarify - the battery-powered smoke alarms I was referring to don't have removable batteries. What they have is batteries that are specifically designed to last for the lifespan of the alarm itself - 7 or 10 years is normal - at which point the alarm would need to be replaced. I've no concerns about longevity, assuming that the claims for battery life are accurate - but do want to make sure that it is 'up to code' for a FHL.

I was referring to a longlife (10 years) one too. Don't Buy cheap! I bought a long life one from Argos in an emergency to replace the one that apparently the guests removed. It too disappeared as the relevant guests said that too started bleeping like a standard battery powered one would. They took it to the office on site, no-one told me and I guess it got chucked away.

So I went to an electrical wholesaler and bought a good quality one when I arrived to find yet another alarm gone. Fingers crossed it's there next time I visit!

I could name many things that a holiday home owner might have to do or replace, but I never thought that disappearing smoke alarms would be on the list.

[Essar]

I could name many things that a holiday home owner might have to do or replace, but I never thought that disappearing smoke alarms would be on the list.

You probably need to fit a burgular alarm to the smoke alarm to stop them getting pinched

Our new townhouse has a sprinkler system - talk about overkill!