To stove or not to stove....

[johnandtahra]

OK, I know that this has been covered before but bear with me. We've had an installer out to have a look at the suitability of chimneys, etc., for a stove. However, despite the building being 250+ years old, our chimney is not original; it looks likely that when the building was converted, the (probably unsafe) old chimney was rebuilt as a 'fake' chimney (to keep it looking right) but internally seems to be all solid.

So, our only option is twin-wall, which is a fair bit more expensive, and I'm looking at the cost:benefit of the stove.

My question is really whether anyone has any rough figures about the impact that NOT having a stove or open fire in a period property might have in securing bookings. In other words, has anyone lost business because they didn't have one, or conversely has anyone seen an uplift in bookings after getting one installed?

Our original install budget (including stove) was ~£1200, which would have been achievable if we had a flue and used 316Ti or 914 grade solid fuel liner, as the actual length we need is not huge (~5-6m in total from hearth to cap). However, looking at twin wall, this is going to run to more like £1800 or even £2000. A big jump up, so I want to really examine whether we are likely to get a benefit from the extra expenditure. In other words, are we likely to get an additional 4 weeks' bookings to justify the cost of a stove (over, say, a two year period)? It doesn't seem like a big uplift to look for, but it needs to be explored with my business head on....

Thanks,

john

[Casscat]

I would say it's likely to be worth it. For winter bookings I would think that having a log burning stove or open fire in a period property was pretty much essential.

[johnandtahra]

Hmmmmm.... that's my way of thinking. As a stove will last a long time (provided you buy a good one), it would only need to add one booking a year to cover its costs over (say) 5 years. However, it's another two grand 'in the game', which makes me question the value.

I reckon it'll make no difference to the peak months but might open up the desirability for 'shoulder' periods. Or winter breaks.

We'll need to get council approval, as it's a listed building, although I get conflicting information about this. Certainly, Historic Scotland defer to the local council, who (I suspect) won't give a cr*p.... but I need to at least make an attempt to clarify this first....

[FelicityA]

I think it might be worth it. When I was with HL I could see what features people were searching for and log fire ( or similar, perhaps they have a stove option here) came up pretty regularly. Having said that, it seems that people have the idea that they want to sit in front of the fire but then with the central heating keeping them cosy, they end up not bothering to light the fire ( which I leave laid, winter and summer, complete with firefighter) in the end. We either have the dedicated fire every night brigade (rare) or those who never get around to it. I think it definitely appeals to those booking at Christmas/ New Year and the really cold months of Jan and Feb.

[Nemo]

I don't know where your property is in the UK, but I'd say unquestionably you will get more bookings because of having a stove than not. It's a USP that many properties can't offer.

Hot tubs, wood burners and pet friendly I believe are three of the highest searches for UK holidays from various sources.

[charles cawley]

I'll second Nemo on that one. People want more, nowadays, and the competition, transparency and quality on offer have all gone through the ceiling.

Pet friendly and stove go across most of the niches where hot tub only really starts to pay with sleep six and above. Larger cottages are not so worried about stoves because getting together in a decent place tends to be the priority... but stoves still have an affect on bookings.

If you can, get a good one and not a cut price Chinese one. I bought one of those and had to reline the fire brick as well as install a more robust grate. Once sorted it does run quite well but nothing like a Clearview or similar.

Take some time to get a good wood supplier. There are some really bad ones out there and its worth learning a bit about wood in the process. This link might help: http://www.holidayletsforsale.com/advic ... d-burners/

[johnandtahra]

Thanks folks. We were looking at installing a Morsø Swift stove, which is a single air control variant of their long-established and extremely well-regarded Squirrel.

All in, it's looking like just under £2k for stove and an internal twin-wall which will break into the stack just as it exits the apex of the roof, so no need to advise planning as the roofline won't be affected. It seems pricy, but then twin-wall can run to twice the cost of a flue liner, so I'm not surprised. It's a local(ish) installer, all the certifications and is ex-forces so I would hope he has that kind of diligence and 'matter-of-fact' approach to doing things properly that most ex-forces folks seem to have.

If this were something else I might be reluctant to almost double our original budget, but as a quality stove install should last decades, it only has to claw back a handful of bookings that we otherwise might have lost to pay for itself. And, should we ever decide to move in ourselves, or sell it on, it's a great feature to have.

As to a wood supply - yes, that's always worth considering. We have a Morsø Owl at home and we've tried a few suppliers (the worst being a local supplier of oak whisky barrel lids, which you'd imagine would burn well but in fact were lousy, a lot of work to cut up for the stove and, apart from smelling nice (there must have been a few bottles worth soaked into the oak) it really was a big disappointment).

Oh, and yes, we'll be pet friendly. But no hot tub

[newtimber]

You won't need planning permission but would almost certainly need listed building consent - the two are not the same.

If you have a stove, you do have additional costs - regular chimney sweeping by a professional sweep, extra cleaning, instructing guests about how to use the fire and not to throw waste food packaging etc in it, stove glass repairs etc etc.

[charles cawley]

Sweeping a liner is very simple.

Listed consent may well be required but the way it is enforced / interpreted varies, hugely, from area to area.

[johnandtahra]

You won't need planning permission but would almost certainly need listed building consent - the two are not the same.

I believe that this only applies if you are altering or adding to the fabric of the building. In the case of lining an existing flue, I read that it's now exempt from planning regs, provided a HETAS installer is used. Might be different down south. In my case, we probably do need permission although that responsibility seems now to be delegated to the relevant local council. Though I do also read conflicting things about this too.... confusing!

[newtimber]

Sorry when you said "fake" chimney, I didn't imagine that you could put the twin-lined flue inside it - so the new twin-lined flue would not be using the fake chimney, but be an addition.

How is it fake?

[newtimber]

Sweeping a liner is very simple.

The registered chimney sweeps don't seem to charge any less (and it's usually an insurance requirement to have a professional sweep) - and liners don't last for ever.

[johnandtahra]

Sorry when you said "fake" chimney, I didn't imagine that you could put the twin-lined flue inside it - so the new twin-lined flue would not be using the fake chimney, but be an addition.

How is it fake?

Good question. It's 'fake' inasmuch as it's a solid brick-built chimney, rendered and finished as to appear consistent with the original chimney (which was probably unsafe). That being said, we don't know at this stage whether it's solid all the way up, just that it is at least solid up to the apex of the roof. The visible stack may be viable. The plan is to run twin wall flue internally and then channel into the stack and then exit through the existing chimney. So, from the outside it should appear more or less exactly as it is now, with the twin wall acting as an internal liner rather than as a new chimney.

[newtimber]

It sounds to me like you need to know what's there before you can decide what to do.
If done recently, they may have put a lead tray across the entire chimney blocking all the unused flues (to prevent rain water coming down the flues) - this would make putting the flue-liner in whilst preserving the lead tray more difficult; in the past, they may have back filled the old flues with rubble (to save carting down all the rubbish from the old chimney) which would make it impossible to fit the flue-liner.
You'd need to get a sweep to look at it from above and see if there are any obstructions.

[JaneV]

I spent just under £1700 having a wood burner installed in our cottage as there was just an open fire there before which I felt posed safety issues. I believe it's been money well spent and I've been very booked up this winter with some guests returning as they've enjoyed the fire so much. Also, I've had an unusual run of guests who don't seem to like central heating and would rather just have the wood burner on, with minimal background heating. I'm now going to offer a good supply of logs and kindling all year round, rather than just the winter months as summer nights can be chilly and it just makes the whole place seem really cosy.