Rental Licence for Murcia region

[Xibalba]

Hi there
We are looking to purchase two properties in the Murcia area, one to live in permanently , the other to rent out as a self catering holiday let.
Been trying to find out if we need to get a license -which I think we do, but can find little info on the how to & costs Found lots of vague may be's & stuff about non residents letting their property but nothing concrete ! ( a bit like the residency requirements )
I have looked through the past threads on here , but does anyone have up to date info/experience or can point us in the right direction, as we want to do this correctly

BTW this is a great forum, very useful & positive (unlike some others )
Thanks

[Casscat]

Welcome to LMH Xibalba Someone with in depth knowledge of the rules relating to Murcia will be along shortly, but it's a pretty bet that there will be a raft of requirements relating to an approved holiday let. The rules in general will apply whether you are resident or non-resident but the taxation of income may differ.

Actually I've just had a trawl and come up with this: http://www.spain-holiday.com/rentalbuzz ... -by-region None too helpful!

[Xibalba]

Thanks Casscat
yes we found that one , hence the ask on here !
Expecting some hoops to jump through , but staying positive

[brabant]

I'm in Castellon, but need a rental licence to operate legitimately too.
I contacted the provincial tourist office who gave me all the information needed.
Might that be a way to go forward?

[costa-brava]

Here is the last that I can find from Spain-holiday. They are the most up-to-date with what's happening region by region.
Region of Murcia (capital Murcia)

We spoke to the Institute of Tourism for Murcia back in March 2014. They told us that it’s not currently possible for an owner to offer their home as individual tourist accommodation. However, as the region is currently revising its general Tourism Act, there is a possibility that they could introduce a ruling to allow private holiday accommodation to operate in the future. This information hasn't changed since our last update.

So it would appear that for the moment it is illegal. Doesn't stop lots of people doing it but check out the thread on "blo....y hacienda".
I have asked many times in Laymyhat for people with licences to say how they got them. I think that the absence of replies tends to imply the absence of legality. I really would love to see a region by region thread opening to see what's happening.
So please can somebody with a licence in Murcia speak up.
I have posted mostly on Catalunya where the picture is clearer but still in motion. I have posted my opinions on Andalucia but opinions aren't really as helpful as the real thing from the people on the ground in each region.

[Xibalba]

Thank you for the replies

I remember when we were in the Mar Menor area last year, that loads of apartments had 'For Rent' signs in their windows, wonder if that has changed ,since the info on on Spain-holiday was posted ?

Costabravarent, a region by region thread would be great !

[Casscat]

I would imagine that many people who have holiday rental properties may be trying for long term lets if there is a clampdown on illegal rentals. The 'for rent' signs are quite possibly 'larga temporada'.

[brabant]

Costabravarent said

'I have asked many times in Laymyhat for people with licences to say how they got them. I think that the absence of replies tends to imply the absence of legality. I really would love to see a region by region thread opening to see what's happening.'

I applied to the Castellon tourist office, had a form to fill out, have returned same and am awaiting an inspection.

[kevsboredagain]

I've been trying to get mine for the Valencia region for months.

My accountants say they can do it for me but I need some documents to prove I own the house. These documents are proving extremely hard to get. I don't have the title deeds because they are held by the mortgage bank, who simply do not answer emails, phone calls or even a letter.

I also need some habitation document but my lawyer just says this was not required when I bought the property so does not exist. Even if I had obtained one at the time of purchase, it would have expired now in any case.

My next step is to ask if my accountant can instead obtain the escritura de compraventa.

I cannot believe how difficult it is in Spain to obtain basic information.

[costa-brava]

You're getting really bad advice Kevsbored. There is no such thing as title deeds in Spain. Find your "registro de propiedad"; most towns of 10,000 pop or more have one but it may be the next town. With proof of identity and a few Euros they will give you an extract from the property register. You will also find that your owner details are on the receipt for IBI (local tax).
When you buy a property in Spain the notary compiles an "escritura publica" which documents the purchase. When you walk out of the Notary's office you should have a copy; the seller has a copy and the bank has a copy. Nobody has any title deeds. In addition there with be a separate "escritura" for the mortgage. Both you and the bank should have a copy but not the seller.
If you go back to the office of the "notario" where you signed the "escritura" they should be able to help you. It's best to have a copy anyway for various things and it's best to do it yourself in person. They all speak a lot more English than they let on.
HABITATION CERTIFICATE is piddly easy to obtain. When a property is new it has a certificate of first occupation which lasts 15 years. If your property is younger than that the town hall (ayuntamiento) should be able to help. If the first certificate has expired you need to go to a surveyor/architect (aparejador or arcitect tecnico) and he/she will do an inspection for a "cedula de habitabilidad". Although you haven't mentioned it you may also need an energy certificate and the same guy can do that too. The cedula will cost between 100 and 150 Euros and so will the energy certificate. He has to register it with the Department of Industry and it takes 4-6 weeks.
On the other hand, if your property wasn't built legally you will not get a "cedula de habitabilidad" and you will have enormous problems later if you try to sell it.
Another useful thing is the catastro. I have already posted about the "cede electronica de catastro" where you can check out the catastral details of any property. But you can also visit the Catastro or even easier is the office in the local town hall that compile the catastro for your area. They will give you a printed page with all your ownership details. This has much more current value than any escritura because it is the base for all types of taxation.
I started doing all these things for myself many years ago when my Spanish could just about stretch to "donde esta el lavabo?"
Spain is much easier than the UK to get things sorted. You just need to know where to go. And that is NEVER an accountant or Gestor (unless you are lucky and have a good one and it sounds like you don't)

[costa-brava]

Sorry Kevsbored
I have just noticed that you are located in France which makes a bit of a nonsense of some my speil. But it still remains necessary to do it on the ground. Several laws changed in the last few years and you cannot buy, sell or rent property without the right documents.

[kevsboredagain]

Sorry costabravarent, it was misleading to say deeds when all I really meant is whatever was signed at the sale, which the bank took a copy of. I was not present and never received it.

I do have an extract from the land registry as I was able to do this online, so I'll see if it alone will be enough proof. The IBI is in my name but was not good enough for the license.

Luckily I don't live in Spain but Switzerland, which makes visiting in person a rare event. I have visited the town hall on a couple of occasions a year or so after I bought the place because things still hadn't changed into my name. They assured me it would but years later I had to pay a lawyer to put it right because the town hall did nothing. So much for visiting in person twice.

Anyone, don't want to derail this thread so any clues as to what documents are really required for a license would be most useful.

[costa-brava]

I don't believe you are derailing the thread. In fact on the contrary you're nailing it on the head. I think that there are thousands of owners who bought property when Spain was in the free-for-all era and are now burying their heads in the sand. It's not just about getting a licence to rent holiday homes.
This is a basic review of documents:
ESCRITURA PUBLICA is any type of document drawn up by a public notary. That's his job. He's not a lawyer in the normal sense. We use "escritura" to apply to house purchase but it can be many other things. Most estate agents etc. actually call it "copia simple". It's value diminishes as the years pass and an extract from the REGISTRO DE PROPIEDAD is better proof of ownership. This extract will also show the charges against the property. If you took out a mortgage against the property this charge will remain against the property until you remove it. To do this you need a certificate from the bank which you take to the Notario who does another "escritura" to pass on to the property register. You have to pay for this. You don't need it for a hol-rent licence but you need it to sell or pass in inheritance.
HABITATION CERTIFICATE (called "primera ocupacion" for new property and "cedula de habitabilidad" for over 15 yrs) You need this in order to rent or sell all dwellings in Spain. (even if it is not specifically required for a hol-rent licence.)
CERTIFICADO DE EFICIENCIA ENERGETICA You must have BEFORE you advertise a property for rent or sale. Whether you need it for a hol-rent is a bit of a grey area.
CATASTRO All legal properties are listed in the catastro and the details of "superficio" floor and land areas are used to calculate the local tax, the capital gains taxes and inheritance tax. The catastro and the escritura are seldom 100% in agreement and it is worthwhile checking (as you did) in the website of "Sede Electronica de Catastro" It costs nothing and you can do it online so you don't need to be in Spain.
It is also important to be aware of the distinction between different classifications of property because this affects hol-rent licences differently in the different regions.
A "vivienda" is a dwelling house not a property intended for tourist accommodation so some areas allow its use for tourism and some don't. The Balearics for example appear to permit some renting of up-market private villas but not privately owned apartments. This is also the case in several regions and it is a point that needs to be checked when Andalucia eventually publish their rules. I believe that as things stand it is illegal to use a "vivienda" for holiday use in Andalucia.
But there is also the classification "RURAL" which makes exceptions for small villages to encourage rural tourism.
An "apartamento turistico" does not apply to private owners. It refers to aparthotels and large blocks that are dedicated entirely to holiday accommodation.
The definition of "uso turistico" is also important and differs between regions. Here in Catalunya it is defined as a temporary let of 31 days or less. Some places it is 90 days or less. The important factor is that you can rent to somebody for the whole summer season without a hol-rent licence but you have to be careful about advertising in the hol-rent sites.
At the end of the day it is the owner who is responsible not the agent, the gestor or the accountant. This is why I say, "if you have a licence tell us all the how, where, what and who". All the opinions and suggestions really just serve to confuse people further and they bury their heads even deeper in the sand.

[Xibalba]

Sorry i'm being a bit of a thicko...

but does one need a licence if you rent your property on a long term basis(ie 3,6 or 12 months) ?

Can't see what the difference is ,unless its things like providing bed linen etc

thanks

[Casscat]

I can't answer with any kind of authority because I am not in your neck of the woods nor do I rent on a long term basis, but in general terms you will need to be on the radar via some sort of licence regardless of the type of let I would have thought (this is Spain after all, and they like to track your every move ) However long term rentals will almost inevitably come with less red tape and fewer restrictions because they are not in competition with hotels and provide much needed accommodation for local workers year round.